Treasure maps, why does their loot suck so much?

That high luck gives you more chance of high intensities which happen to be Cursed or Antique. 

You proved luck works.

Except the cursed and antique items that were generated were largely Greater Magical items. Which are not high intensity at all.

luck should not make for worse loot 

Try SoS that loot is all trash as well to be honest it’s like it’s much of a fight though 

Eodon maps the worst 3 allosaurus 3 both hoard and trove maps 3 allosaurus the loot crap did i mention how ridiculous 3 allosaurus is 

gay said:

I haven't found a single positive thing about Eodon, aside from the large monkey.

The AI of it's native NPCs is clunky, the unfinished landmass littered with NODRAW tiles, 30% of it being lazily blocked off by invisible walls which sure is okay for the outer edges maybe... but through the MIDDLE OF THE MAP? I was hyped about the allosaurus initially because I mean cmon who hasn't read https://www.amazon.com/Wet-Allosaurus-Summer-Lola-Faust-ebook/dp/B08K4XHRQW ? But meh. Flop after flop.

Not to mention it and tel muir are somehow considered dungeons 

Do a lot of chests without that much luck on my suit.  Most chests cache and above have one or two really good pieces in them and occasionally a legendary piece. Generally on my shard there is not much of a market for any of these things so even though they are really good they don’t generate any income.

Hoard and trove chests have soa and sot scrolls which can have some value and are usually the only salable items in the chest.  Felucca chests have up to 110 power scrolls that as a rule have less value than the other scrolls in the chest.  If you are into these lower end scrolls, generally I get better power scrolls from cache chests than I do from hoard and trove.

Really think treasure hunters should have a chance of getting something of real value out of hoard and trove chests.  After all they are treasure chests.  Maybe a chance of a 115 scroll out of a hoard and a 120 out of a trove.  Maybe a hawkwind robe, hooks shield or an upscale spellbook.  As is have to agree with gay above, these chests incorporate the worlds worst loot generating system.  Don’t agree that everything generated is useless junk, although to be honest that term does describe most of what’s in there.  But really you will be better off financially doing two cache chests which will take you about half the time it takes to do a hoard.  Really would like to look forward to having a chance of really getting something of value from a treasure chest.

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

“Is it possible to get trove maps for fel? (better loot)”

gay said:

So out of pure boredom I threw together a tmapper, slapped a 2600 luck suit and +5 glasses on to it so my group could have a chance at luck procs, then set out and dug up 30 Eodon maps and 10 Ilshenar Troves of varied types. I used a three man group of my own characters, the mapper, a bard, and a sampire.

Roughly 80% of the loot was cursed, and probably 95% of the overall loot (not counting SoT/SoA, refinements, the dumb shrine gems, and bags ofc) was just completely unusable garbage.

Why even revamp a system of treasure hunting when you're going to water it down with the world's worst loot generating system in existence? Out of the 40 maps I did, I kept two (2) things, that weren't even that great to begin with. These are supposed to be the highest level maps in game, the hardest and most lucrative ones, the pinnacle of treasure maps. And fourty of them generated pure garbage, no usable splintering weapons, no even half decent jewels, the armor itself was an absolute train wreck to look through.

@ Mesanna @ Bleak @ Kyronix

This part is for you guys, if you're not going to police the afk bots farming the following zones 24/7 across almost every Asian shard, Oceania, and most NA Servers, then the least you can do is re-design the system for treasure hunting in a way that isn't a complete waste of time for players who legitimately use it to generate loot, and have to deal with with the absolute cancer of mob selection that spawns from it. Without night shift GMs being able to respond to pages, or even being active to check these easily checked locations, the only people your current system is benefiting are the AFK farmers who go unchecked.

• Painted Caves, Grobu & Lurg (felucca)
• Sanctuary, Szavetra (felucca)
• Fan Dancer Dojo, Fan Dancers (Tokuno)
• Tsuki Wolves (Tokuno)
• Yomotsu Mines, Yomotsu Elder (Tokuno)
• Shame, Air Elementals (felucca)

Not to mention that, if you did Eodon Maps, the Guardians spawning there are particularly time consuming to tackle thus, making the effort to complete a Map even more time consuming....

So much time invested, to get so little in return.....

Indeed, to many players, Treasure Maps are not worth the effort and the time they take....

Yoshi said:

“Is it possible to get trove maps for fel? (better loot)”

Not on the corpse of Monsters, that I know of...

Yet, since Hoard Treasure Chests can contain a Trove Map, technically, I assume that it could be possible, albeit rarely, to get a Felucca Trove Map from time to time....

• Sanctuary, Szavetra (felucca)
• Shame, Air Elementals (felucca)

 @gay

Out of curiosity, what is there that makes it worth to AFK farm Szavetra in Felucca or Shame Air Elementals in Felucca ?

Pawain said:

That high luck gives you more chance of high intensities which happen to be Cursed or Antique. 

You proved luck works.

The OP also mentioned using +5 Cartography glasses so, that was also another boost which "should " have resulted in a loot quality boost.... it "should " have....

I think in this, as in the other thread https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10950/25-years/p3 , Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or something like that.
I dig treasure maps because I find them fun to do.  I've had enough pieces that work for my characters to fit into their suits, complementing the occasional named artifact piece my characters have gotten through other activities. 

And yes, trove maps for Fel exist, I've dug many of them.

My primary income from maps is the SoAs and SoTs, with occasionally a nice, bound, power scroll.  But I don't need to think about 'how much is this worth' when I look at the magic items in a chest, I don't play to be the richest player in game, I only play to enjoy my playing time. If the high end items in a chest don't make sense as part of a suit, they do nicely for relic fragments.

Petra_Fyde said:

I think in this, as in the other thread https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10950/25-years/p3 , Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or something like that.
I dig treasure maps because I find them fun to do.  I've had enough pieces that work for my characters to fit into their suits, complementing the occasional named artifact piece my characters have gotten through other activities. 

And yes, trove maps for Fel exist, I've dug many of them.

My primary income from maps is the SoAs and SoTs, with occasionally a nice, bound, power scroll.  But I don't need to think about 'how much is this worth' when I look at the magic items in a chest, I don't play to be the richest player in game, I only play to enjoy my playing time. If the high end items in a chest don't make sense as part of a suit, they do nicely for relic fragments.

I can understand your "fun" argument but, really, I hope that you can agree that EODON Treasure Maps are way too time consuming with the type of spawn that they generate and the quality of loot that they provide to even be able to see them as fun.....

popps said:

• Sanctuary, Szavetra (felucca)
• Shame, Air Elementals (felucca)

 @ gay

Out of curiosity, what is there that makes it worth to AFK farm Szavetra in Felucca or Shame Air Elementals in Felucca ?

I am willing to admit, and not for the first time, that Eodon maps are disproportionately difficult and have only done one Eodon Hoard map, with friends, for a giggle. Not expecting anything useful out of it.  That doesn't stop me enjoying maps on the rest of the facets, and if I don't feel like digging a high end Eodon map, well it's still worth 500 clean up points.

I have also found treasure map loot to be unusable for the most part. One of the biggest issues is definitely the maximum intensity that seems to be generated.

I'm not saying every chest should have godly pieces; it could be 1:10 or 1:20 but as it currently stands I have yet to see a single piece (out of 400+ chests) be something that has 8 properties with mods that are all max (or close to max). 

To your point gay, there is much more consistently better loot coming from other easier mobs which seems like shouldn't be the case given that T maps had an "overhaul" to address the loot issues.

popps said:

Pawain said:

That high luck gives you more chance of high intensities which happen to be Cursed or Antique. 

You proved luck works.

The OP also mentioned using +5 Cartography glasses so, that was also another boost which "should " have resulted in a loot quality boost.... it "should " have....

+5 Carto glasses doesn't do anything more than impact the quality of chest, not loot - per se. The higher your carto; the more of a chance you pull a gold chest over a metal or rusty chest. My results are inconclusive on whether or not a gold chest gives better loot because it wasn't consistent at all (I'd sometimes get better items in a metal chest than gold).

keven2002 said:

I have also found treasure map loot to be unusable for the most part. One of the biggest issues is definitely the maximum intensity that seems to be generated.

I'm not saying every chest should have godly pieces; it could be 1:10 or 1:20 but as it currently stands I have yet to see a single piece (out of 400+ chests) be something that has 8 properties with mods that are all max (or close to max). 

To your point gay, there is much more consistently better loot coming from other easier mobs which seems like shouldn't be the case given that T maps had an "overhaul" to address the loot issues.

popps said:

Pawain said:

That high luck gives you more chance of high intensities which happen to be Cursed or Antique. 

You proved luck works.

The OP also mentioned using +5 Cartography glasses so, that was also another boost which "should " have resulted in a loot quality boost.... it "should " have....

+5 Carto glasses doesn't do anything more than impact the quality of chest, not loot - per se. The higher your carto; the more of a chance you pull a gold chest over a metal or rusty chest. My results are inconclusive on whether or not a gold chest gives better loot because it wasn't consistent at all (I'd sometimes get better items in a metal chest than gold).

So even at gm cartography using the +5 glasses gives the boost???so the cap isn't really the cap 

Correct. At 100 carto wearing the glasses will still give a bump. They work like mining gloves.

gay said:

I think everyone should do what they enjoy, and if doing whatever is available to be done is what someone enjoys doing then they should do it. But that doesn't necessarily mean that thing isn't overdue for being looked into and changed.

I feel that with the amount of loot a treasure map can generate, more of it should be useful than what the current system provides. And for that to happen means further re-development of how the loot system generates items, which is a good thing. Non-static loot generation systems should constantly be refined, and balanced, especially in a game like UO.

I shouldn't be able to log into 20 different servers and see 5-30 EJ/Young characters in basic luck suits standing in one tile at the same spots on every dead server farming the same mobs. That is not only indicative of a policing system derelict of police, but of a loot table in need of an overhaul.

I feel that with the amount of loot a treasure map can generate, more of it should be useful than what the current system provides.

I think that of the problems may reside, in the fact that, if I remember correctly, at the latest modification of Treasure Maps, publish 105, Spring 2019, when they changed the Maps from the 7 that they were, into the 5 that they are now, Stash, Supply, Cache, Hoard and Trove, the number of items spawning in Treasure Chests were reduced.... as well as other items, other then weapons or armor or jewellery, were added thus further reducing the actual number of weapons, armor and jewels as compared to the many that were spawning with the previous system.

This, perhaps, resulted that, with a considerably lower number of items, the odds to get good ones with the new system were greatly dimished thus resulting in the feeling of players of a general much reduced quality of loot in Treasure Chests....

Perhaps, to compensate the reduction in the number of weapons, armor and jewels spawning in Treasure Chests, the odds and chances of Legendary ones that are not Cursed to be spawned should be upped ?

keven2002 said:

popps said:

Pawain said:

That high luck gives you more chance of high intensities which happen to be Cursed or Antique. 

You proved luck works.

The OP also mentioned using +5 Cartography glasses so, that was also another boost which "should " have resulted in a loot quality boost.... it "should " have....

+5 Carto glasses doesn't do anything more than impact the quality of chest, not loot - per se. The higher your carto; the more of a chance you pull a gold chest over a metal or rusty chest. My results are inconclusive on whether or not a gold chest gives better loot because it wasn't consistent at all (I'd sometimes get better items in a metal chest than gold).

According to the uo wiki https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/treasure-maps/

There are also three qualities of chest, rusty, the familiar normal metal or gold. Chest Quality is determined at dig time based on the digger’s modified cartography skill the first time the chest is successfully dug up.

And also

There are 4 factors that influence what items end up in a chest if successful random rolls are made, Map Level, Profession Package, Chest Quality, and Facet.
Chest quality can impact chest loot in a variety of ways including the quantity of a specific loot item, the range of bonuses, the type of crafting materials, and the intensity of randomly generated magic equipment.

So, to my understanding, the OP, with 2600 luck suit and +5 glasses on, should have had some really serious chances at getting Legendaries that were "keepers"....

Yet, as the OP laments, this did not happen and, mind you, over some 40 Trove Maps....

To me, this shows that something is working quite wrong in the Quality of Loot Generation from Treasure Maps....

Honestly cartography should only effect decoding the map not treasure at all

Regarding Fel trove maps, they spawn in Fed hoard chests at about or at the same rate as trove maps in other hoard chests.  Don’t do a lot of Fed chests but spawn rates for trove maps appears to be about the same as for others.

To be honest if Fed chests had better loot than the others would do more of them.  But with the power scrolls you get from them being worth less or about the same as the scrolls from chests dug in safe areas the reward just does not justify the risk.  Agree with others loot from these chests should be better. It is, as far as I can see, except for the lower ranked power scrolls identical to what I get from similar level chests anywhere else.

By the way what’s the deal with Fed Artisan maps?  Fed artisan maps DO NOT SPAWN power scrolls.  Any reason a player should buy those on vendor search?

By the way if you have a character learning imbuing, chests are a good way to get stuff to imbue and make fairly good gold while you are doing it.  Just bag it or send the character out pick it up after you empty the chest.

Arnold7 said:

Regarding Fel trove maps, they spawn in Fed hoard chests at about or at the same rate as trove maps in other hoard chests.  Don’t do a lot of Fed chests but spawn rates for trove maps appears to be about the same as for others.

To be honest if Fed chests had better loot than the others would do more of them.  But with the power scrolls you get from them being worth less or about the same as the scrolls from chests dug in safe areas the reward just does not justify the risk.  Agree with others loot from these chests should be better. It is, as far as I can see, except for the lower ranked power scrolls identical to what I get from similar level chests anywhere else.

By the way what’s the deal with Fed Artisan maps?  Fed artisan maps DO NOT SPAWN power scrolls.  Any reason a player should buy those on vendor search?

But with the power scrolls you get from them being worth less......

I totally agree about the worthlessness of Powerscrolls in Treasure Chests being them only 105s and 110s.

That is why, when the Publish 109 was being worked on, I insisted that Powerscrolls spawning in Treasure Chests were permitted to be spawned also as 115s...

It takes just way too many Treasure Chests to make a 120 out of 110s...

I mean, 12 x 110s to make 1 x 115 and then 10 x 115s to make a 120.

That comes out as 120 x 110s "same kind" Powerscrolls needed to make a 120 which it then means, because of the RNG, a ridicolous amount of proper kind Treasure Maps to be found and Treasure chests to be digged up.

Bottom line is, forget to try making a 120 Powerscroll out of Treasure chests...

Different it would be, and more realistically feasible, if also 115s were permitted to spawn in Treasure chests.... THEN, it would still take time and effort to get 120s out of Treasure chests but, at least, it would now be more realistically feasible....

Arnold7 said:

By the way if you have a character learning imbuing, chests are a good way to get stuff to imbue and make fairly good gold while you are doing it.  Just bag it or send the character out pick it up after you empty the chest.

Much less time consuming to just get a Pack Horse and go to Scalis hunts which are quite frequent and at the end of it, grab all of the junk which players leave behind on Scalis corpse and unravel that..... much less time consuming as compared to doing Treasure Maps....

Have to agree it would take years for a player that plays solo to get enough scrolls from treasure chests to make a 120 scroll.  Just getting enough of the right kind chests that have a reasonable probability of generating the kinds of scrolls you need would be an almost insurmountable task.  Not saying it could not be done.  Might be practical for some of the players that have been playing nonstop since 1997 having dozens of books filled with power scrolls.  But in general agree with Popps on this one.

If you are looking for legendaries do cache maps with +5 cartography glasses on because you are more likely to get a gold chest than if you are doing hoard or trove maps. I've dug up gold cache chests with nothing but legendaries in them with only 1800 in luck.

So wearing the +5 cartography glasses more important than the luck from my normal headgear? 

McDougle said:

So wearing the +5 cartography glasses more important than the luck from my normal headgear? 

Yes because the glasses improve your chances of getting a gold chest. Gold chests have more loot and the loot is generally better.

Imbue luck onto your glasses and you get the luck boost as well.

Don’t have a lot of luck on my suit but also get mostly gold cache chests using the plus 5 glasses.  Thanks for the post.  That might explain why the Fel ones usually contain more 110 scrolls than the hoards and troves.  Was thinking it was just my imagination but that explains it.  Very rarely get a black cache chest.

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

The intensity of the treasure maps just needs to be turned up a bit for it to be modestly in line with the above mentioned 24/7 farmed locations.

You can pull legendaries from Cache/Horde/Trove - but they can not have 8 mods - only 7 max. 

It just needs a slight bump in intensity and it would greatly increase the replay value of a really nicely revamped system. 

This has been asked for already 
I think the reasoning is it’s not as much effort as other encounters that spawn 8 mods to justify it so 7 mods is what the max is on chest. I disagree. 

compass said:

The intensity of the treasure maps just needs to be turned up a bit for it to be modestly in line with the above mentioned 24/7 farmed locations.

You can pull legendaries from Cache/Horde/Trove - but they can not have 8 mods - only 7 max. 

It just needs a slight bump in intensity and it would greatly increase the replay value of a really nicely revamped system. 

And to think that, in the game, there is quite a number of players having and enjoying Legendaries with 12 mods (no longer obtainable....).

I think that the Developers should be worried how, such a disparity among players that may deter some players to want to deal with a game where their progression is heavily uphill and to the point that they cannot even get anywhere close to Veteran players since there is powerfull items which no longer are obtainable in the game, such as 12 mods Legendaries.... hurts the game, rather then help it....

Skett said:

This has been asked for already 
I think the reasoning is it’s not as much effort as other encounters that spawn 8 mods to justify it so 7 mods is what the max is on chest. I disagree. 

Did the Developers ever tried dealing with a Trove Map and its Guardians with  a normal character not in God mode ?

Quite a task, effort and time consuming.... and for what ? The junk loot that players lament....

My mage with 120 magery, 120 eval (110 actual plus a wizards curio), 100 resist, med. cart.,
and 95 lockpicking and remove trap can solo troves so you don’t need a super player.  Troves take a while sometimes.  I don’t do the Endon or Lish. troves but I do all the others.  I rarely get killed and always have plenty of time left over to loot the chest.  His armor consists mostly of the better drops from monsters and chests.

But agree the game’s owners should be concerned about the disparity between longtime players and newer players.  Maybe that’s part of the rational behind The NL shard having everyone starting from scratch.

Arnold7 said:

My mage with 120 magery, 120 eval (110 actual plus a wizards curio), 100 resist, med. cart.,
and 95 lockpicking and remove trap can solo troves so you don’t need a super player.  Troves take a while sometimes.  I don’t do the Endon or Lish. troves but I do all the others.  I rarely get killed and always have plenty of time left over to loot the chest.  His armor consists mostly of the better drops from monsters and chests.

But agree the game’s owners should be concerned about the disparity between longtime players and newer players.  Maybe that’s part of the rational behind The NL shard having everyone starting from scratch.

How does NL  help so a new player finishes a season on par with vets then has to pick a shard and suddenly is a second class citizen 

The new player will have a pretty cool title though that shows they played NL; and maybe even a trinket!  😂

Skett said:

This has been asked for already 
I think the reasoning is it’s not as much effort as other encounters that spawn 8 mods to justify it so 7 mods is what the max is on chest. I disagree. 

I want to expound on this a bit to hopefully provide @Kyronix with additional perspective if this interests him:


If you consider each chest takes at minimum 5-6 minutes (dig + guardians + lockpick + remove trap skilled disarm) and that they have 12 magical items in it.

In 6 minutes you can solo on 1 single character in a modest luck/samp suit:
45 Szavetra 
6 lurg
70 Fan Dancer
[etc]

So the sheer volume of higher tiered magical items is exponentially higher.   By the time you pop that chest to look at the 12 magical items in it you could be effortlessly killed over 300-350 magical items.


That's not to say treasure chests need to be better than monster loot - you do get all of the additional items, resources, decor, scrolls, etc -  but the highest replay aspect of the system will be the magical weapons/armor/jewels, so I think there's a suitable case to adjust it to be in line with far less effort intensive systems.

@compass - that's a good point.  It would be nice if there was greater parity between encounters on the kind of loot you could get.  Given the nature of updates to systems over the years (different teams, different goals, different outcomes) it's really challenging to do that.  The t-map update sought to address several issues with the encounters overall, after having percolated for a quite a bit another pass is probably warranted - but there are so many cogs in the wheel at this point that balancing on live in situations like this quickly creates balloons in scope.  Thanks for the feedback.

Kyronix said:

@ compass - that's a good point.  It would be nice if there was greater parity between encounters on the kind of loot you could get.  Given the nature of updates to systems over the years (different teams, different goals, different outcomes) it's really challenging to do that.  The t-map update sought to address several issues with the encounters overall, after having percolated for a quite a bit another pass is probably warranted - but there are so many cogs in the wheel at this point that balancing on live in situations like this quickly creates balloons in scope.  Thanks for the feedback.

Holy $#!%, is that a dev? Or was my coffee spiked?

If you're going to look at loot tables again, i might add the system never rolls quality armor for non "end game" mobs. There are some nice rolls for jewels and weps but i have personally never gotten any sort of usable armor. 

Urge said:

If you're going to look at loot tables again, i might add the system never rolls quality armor for non "end game" mobs. There are some nice rolls for jewels and weps but i have personally never gotten any sort of usable armor. 

“Medium end armor is still desirable as there are some mods that just don’t appear on high end legendary armor, namely luck 150, RPD, and HCI”

@Kyronix can you check the loot for SoS and AoS as well those are really really hard encounters  

Yoshi said:

Urge said:

If you're going to look at loot tables again, i might add the system never rolls quality armor for non "end game" mobs. There are some nice rolls for jewels and weps but i have personally never gotten any sort of usable armor. 

“Medium end armor is still desirable as there are some mods that just don’t appear on high end legendary armor, namely luck 150, RPD, and HCI”

Right but i never get any of that either. I'll usually get armor so low i wouldn't even give it to a new player. I do get some nice jewels. 

Urge said:

If you're going to look at loot tables again, i might add the system never rolls quality armor for non "end game" mobs. There are some nice rolls for jewels and weps but i have personally never gotten any sort of usable armor. 

Whichit is a pity since, due to the different types of Treasure Maps in both professions and Facets, Treasure Maps could be made a very good way for players to look for and find, the type of specific Armor which they need.....

Of course, if that armor was to be any good for players to want to keep and use it, that is....

popps said:

Whichit is a pity since, due to the different types of Treasure Maps in both professions and Facets, Treasure Maps could be made a very good way for players to look for and find, the type of specific Armor which they need.....

Of course, if that armor was to be any good for players to want to keep and use it, that is....

I wasn't speaking for tmaps. I'm talking about random rolls on dungeon monsters. Ancient wyrms, daemons, balrons ect. I have never got one usable piece of armor off any of those. 

Example of a paragon ancient wyrm i just killed. Unusable for any template compared to difficulty to kill.

Pretty sure the process for creating drops you get from killing stuff is pretty much random although the nature of the drops is influenced by the general area and the level of the monster you just killed.  For example, in Tel Mur you get mostly gargoyle stuff.  I get mostly the same kind of junk too but if I kill enough I usually get something much better than that, that I can use or sell.  That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

Arnold7 said:

Pretty sure the process for creating drops you get from killing stuff is pretty much random although the nature of the drops is influenced by the general area and the level of the monster you just killed.  For example, in Tel Mur you get mostly gargoyle stuff.  I get mostly the same kind of junk too but if I kill enough I usually get something much better than that, that I can use or sell.  That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

 And what is the consequence of such Game Design choices if nothing other that then, either players need to spend countless entertainment time of their life pursuing those better items if they want to remain competitive in the game or, resort to third party applications which permit to script those tasks in that game, perhaps even AFK and thus not having to spend so much of their time ? Or just quit playing that game because too much of a drain of their time ?

Hours and hours and hours, sometimes even days if not weeks or months of one's own life for some pixels ? Are we serious, really ?

popps said:

Arnold7 said:

Pretty sure the process for creating drops you get from killing stuff is pretty much random although the nature of the drops is influenced by the general area and the level of the monster you just killed.  For example, in Tel Mur you get mostly gargoyle stuff.  I get mostly the same kind of junk too but if I kill enough I usually get something much better than that, that I can use or sell.  That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

 And what is the consequence of such Game Design choices if nothing other that then, either players need to spend countless entertainment time of their life pursuing those better items if they want to remain competitive in the game or, resort to third party applications which permit to script those tasks in that game, perhaps even AFK and thus not having to spend so much of their time ? Or just quit playing that game because too much of a drain of their time ?

Hours and hours and hours, sometimes even days if not weeks or months of one's own life for some pixels ? Are we serious, really ?

Exactly. In the 25 years UO has been out I have probably finished 1000 games that I never play again because they have an end game.

The only games that last 25 years do not have a way to get to an end of game.  Getting an uber suit would be end of game.  But they keep adding to what is uber. So we keep playing.

Play on Test center if you want to win UO.  then you can move to something else.

Rintar said:

THunting is one of the most lucratives activities in Uo.... But it takes times:

*PS scroll in Fel. True, no 120 but u can use merge 105/110 or sell 110 or use them in ur chars or ur Pets. 110 scrolls like Ana, tactics, wrest, parrying are quite expensive (Eu/Atl shard player here)

*Money. Is true u can get more money in a champ or Shadow but after long time figthing

*Ala/Trans scrolls. Save u time or money. Skills such necro, ninji, bushido, magery, spellw and taming are expensive too

*Jewells save ur money for imbuing or u can sell them too

*Stuff like rings, armor, etc. I drop all in a container for imbuing training or get residues, esences, etc. Good way for Clean Britain point (slow, tho)

*Find new/good pets like Frost dragon or cold drake

Could be t hunting more lucrative? Yes but is enougth for playing and make money without high risk for ur chars

*PS scroll in Fel. True, no 120 but u can use merge 105/110 or sell 110 or use them in ur chars or ur Pets. 110 scrolls like Ana, tactics, wrest, parrying are quite expensive (Eu/Atl shard player here)

It really is unrealistic to even want to "think" about making a 120 out of Treasure Maps powerscrolls...

The mathematics involved is prohibitive, unfortunately....

It takes 12 x 110s to make 1 x 115 and then, 10 x 115s to make a 120 Powerscroll.

That makes it 120 same type 110s for a 120 Powerscroll.

Say that one was to want to make a 120 Wrestling, can you imagine the time it would take to find 120 Wrestling 110s in Treasure Chests ?

There is many skills that the 110s can spawn as in a Treasure Chest so, only 1 chest out of X treasure Maps will have a 110 Wrestling and this chance needs to be reproduced 120 times in order to finally make that 120 Wrestling....

Say that the chances to have a 110 Wrestling Powerscroll in a Treasure Chest are 1 out of 20, this chance will need to come true 120 times which this means having to find and dig up some 2,400 Treasure Maps.... and this, just for one 120 Wrestling Powerscroll !!

Of course, this is totally unrealistic.....

As I have always said, Treasure Chests should have been made capable of spawning also 115 Powerscrolls. THEN, it would have become more feasible and realistic to make 120s with Treasure Chests findings albeit still time consuming and requiring a significant effort.

But as of now, with 110s being the CAP, it is simply unrealistic.... the mathematics involved is way, way too prohibitive and impossible, realistically.

I buy 110 pet scrolls to resell all the time.

I dig and buy them. I have 8 tamers to feed

Kyronix said:

@ compass - that's a good point.  It would be nice if there was greater parity between encounters on the kind of loot you could get.  Given the nature of updates to systems over the years (different teams, different goals, different outcomes) it's really challenging to do that.  The t-map update sought to address several issues with the encounters overall, after having percolated for a quite a bit another pass is probably warranted - but there are so many cogs in the wheel at this point that balancing on live in situations like this quickly creates balloons in scope.  Thanks for the feedback.

That's an interesting idea! Props.

Maybe expand on it to have like a bod reward points system with some other neat rewards?

gay said:

Ah yes, the BOD system, once fairly intractable yet potentially lucrative, now re-developed in a way intended to combat the scripters by simultaneously making it the most difficult and cancerous version of the system that's ever existed for the attended player.

A classic example of one of the many "welp we touched it already this decade, just be happy with that" revamps we've been blessed with.

Are you serious?  Getting a random reward like we used to is better than being able to choose a reward and do the BOD that gets it like we can now.

That is a ridiculous take on BODs.  You clearly do not do them.  I have made many millions on the new Dyes and other rewards they implemented.  PoF is worth getting now, and all you have to do is bride a small up and choose it.

I love doing maps, hate the remove trap part.  even at 100% I fail 4 out 5 times, you should be able to remove trap when at GM level 100% of the time with no fails

Pawain said:

gay said:

Ah yes, the BOD system, once fairly intractable yet potentially lucrative, now re-developed in a way intended to combat the scripters by simultaneously making it the most difficult and cancerous version of the system that's ever existed for the attended player.

A classic example of one of the many "welp we touched it already this decade, just be happy with that" revamps we've been blessed with.

Are you serious?  Getting a random reward like we used to is better than being able to choose a reward and do the BOD that gets it like we can now.

That is a ridiculous take on BODs.  You clearly do not do them.  I have made many millions on the new Dyes and other rewards they implemented.  PoF is worth getting now, and all you have to do is bride a small up and choose it.

I think the brokenness comes from the rewards horned kits more desirable than barbed copper and bronze than val etc no runic tinker tools another thing that if done right and was finished could have been fantastic 

What?  Barbed kits reforge  awesome armor! Then you can enhance for resists.  We already had a thread about the value of a Val hammer.

And Val hammer on Pac 8 mil I have 5 at 90 charge I feel they are useless because I already have 9mil clean up points I’ve been sitting on hoping they add something new 

Skett said:

And Val hammer on Pac 8 mil I have 5 at 90 charge I feel they are useless because I already have 9mil clean up points I’ve been sitting on hoping they add something new 

There is another thread where Yoshi told the poster things they could make with them that sold for a lot of gold.

Otherwise they are just like a Barbed kit except they make Metal armor. IMO the cleanup points are worth the Large BOD that makes them.  A bout a bazillion of them have been donated to the tree instead.

Most of my dexxers wear 1 or 2 pieces of crafted armor.

A lot of gold ? 

Skett said:

A lot of gold ? 

Ask for specifics in this thread:
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10984/the-value-of-a-valorite-runic-hammer/p1

Pawain said:

Skett said:

And Val hammer on Pac 8 mil I have 5 at 90 charge I feel they are useless because I already have 9mil clean up points I’ve been sitting on hoping they add something new 

There is another thread where Yoshi told the poster things they could make with them that sold for a lot of gold.

Otherwise they are just like a Barbed kit except they make Metal armor. IMO the cleanup points are worth the Large BOD that makes them.  A bout a bazillion of them have been donated to the tree instead.

Most of my dexxers wear 1 or 2 pieces of crafted armor.

I think you clearly missed that the post was really tongue in cheek and was more of a backhanded shot at unattended bots. I made a ton of stuff on TC1 with a val hammer (using various properties) and nothing I made translated to a weapon better than something I could make with a bronze hammer to get 1 property over strength and imbue the rest. Again I called this out and Yoshi said "yes but it doesn't have the self repair which is invaluable to afk bots". 

You say most of your dexxers wear "crafted armor" but I'd be willing to bet it's imbued armor (possibly reforged with a low end runic); not a reforged piece from a barbed kit / val hammer. I'd actually be willing to bet on it. Feel free to post your pieces that you made with a barbed or val runic (that are not imbued). 

Getting back to the topic on hand. I think PlayerSkill has a good idea but even the core foundation of treasure maps would need to be tweaked in order for that to work. Honestly if the core is fixed then idk if we need to add more layers to it because the stuff that comes in hoard/trove maps would become viable.

First problem is that most of the weapons for the professions are terribly obsolete (and I'd argue never were relevant). In a mage chest there are gnarled/quarter staves, in a warrior chest there are things like bardiche/crescent blade/pike etc, and in assassin chest there is a dagger/cutlass. This is also the case with things like skull gnarled staff/long sword and octopus necklace (which I don't even think can be imbued) and ancient weapons which all do nothing (yet come in Trove chest). To top it off, the weapons that actually do spawn are usually have some wasted stat like +4 mana or +6 HPR.

Second problem is that the things included in each level almost seems backwards. You get more desirable stuff in a supply map than a trove map. Don't believe me? Check it out: https://www.uo-cah.com/treasure-map-search?search=package&p=Assassin&f=Trammel#v . In a supply map you can get mapmakers glasses/artifacts/pardons/skele keys/recipes/etc from these maps and don't even need remove trap or lockpicking. Compared to a Trove map: the highest of all maps will give you pinks/blues, arguably the best thing you will get, which also can be in a supply/cache (lower) maps. The legendary gear that could possibly spawn (but doesn't spawn much) will be watered down intensity stuff that is not capable of being used with end game type content. In all honesty, you probably have a better chance looting something off the guardians that guard the chest over what is actually in the chest. 

So how is this fixed?

I think first step is to update the weapons by spawning things people will actually keep/use (even if I were to get a 70% lightning/HLD/HML/HSL/HLL/30SSI clean viking sword it's not going to be used). So this would mean spawn double axes/bladed staves/maces/war hammer/kryss/war fork/comp bows/soul glaives etc that will spawn with usable stats. Next step would be to adjust Trove chests to actually contain something worthy of the highest/hardest chest type there is. I think this is where the game could (re)introduce armor that has str & dex type stats (Animated X of Vitality) . At the very least there needs to be the ability to generate an 8 mod / mostly max intensity pieces.

These fixes are at the fundamental level and would need to be addressed before doing any type of treasure map BOD system because if they don't at least fix the fact that treasure chests legendaries are never even close to max total property weight then it doesn't how many legendary items come in the "reward" chests (and knowing this team, I'm sure they would likely cost a ton of turn in maps).

For a newer player especially, you get some stuff other players actually want from supply chests that is not found in any other kinds of chests. I am thinking tasty treats, pardons, mana orbs, map makers glasses and skeleton keys.  It has always surprised me that these things are not found in other chests.  You actually get stuff you can sell for a good profit.  For example pardons on my shard sell in the one to three million gold range.  It is not difficult to make a mage that can farm these.

You can get better weapons and stuff from the higher level chests but it seems like everyone else has been playing long enough that they already have basically the same stuff so it takes forever to sell it if it sells at all.

As a newer player really appreciated the supply chests.

Note believe you do need remove trap but not lockpicking if you are a mage.  Stash chests and supply chest are great for building your remove trap skill.

Arnold7 said:

For a newer player especially, you get some stuff other players actually want from supply chests that is not found in any other kinds of chests. I am thinking tasty treats, pardons, mana orbs, map makers glasses and skeleton keys.  It has always surprised me that these things are not found in other chests.  You actually get stuff you can sell for a good profit.  For example pardons on my shard sell in the one to three million gold range.  It is not difficult to make a mage that can farm these.

You can get better weapons and stuff from the higher level chests but it seems like everyone else has been playing long enough that they already have basically the same stuff so it takes forever to sell it if it sells at all.

As a newer player really appreciated the supply chests.

Note believe you do need remove trap but not lockpicking if you are a mage.  Stash chests and supply chest are great for building your remove trap skill.

keven2002 said:

Pawain said:

Skett said:

And Val hammer on Pac 8 mil I have 5 at 90 charge I feel they are useless because I already have 9mil clean up points I’ve been sitting on hoping they add something new 

There is another thread where Yoshi told the poster things they could make with them that sold for a lot of gold.

Otherwise they are just like a Barbed kit except they make Metal armor. IMO the cleanup points are worth the Large BOD that makes them.  A bout a bazillion of them have been donated to the tree instead.

Most of my dexxers wear 1 or 2 pieces of crafted armor.

I think you clearly missed that the post was really tongue in cheek and was more of a backhanded shot at unattended bots. I made a ton of stuff on TC1 with a val hammer (using various properties) and nothing I made translated to a weapon better than something I could make with a bronze hammer to get 1 property over strength and imbue the rest. Again I called this out and Yoshi said "yes but it doesn't have the self repair which is invaluable to afk bots". 

You say most of your dexxers wear "crafted armor" but I'd be willing to bet it's imbued armor (possibly reforged with a low end runic); not a reforged piece from a barbed kit / val hammer. I'd actually be willing to bet on it. Feel free to post your pieces that you made with a barbed or val runic (that are not imbued). 

You lost that bet,  I put the pics in a more appropriate thread. 3 toons wear those pieces.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10984/the-value-of-a-valorite-runic-hammer#latest

Drago said:

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

I bumped into this Thread from last Year https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9692/whoever-added-the-allosaurus-to-eodon-t-map-spawn-hates-treasure-hunters asking to remove Allosaurus from Eodon Treasure Maps because they make these Treasure Maps way, but way too much time consuming to do for the little that they give.

Basically, not worth the hassle.....

@Kyronix , could you please remove them and change them with a more feasible and killable creature ? Thanks.

popps said:

Drago said:

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

I bumped into this Thread from last Year https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9692/whoever-added-the-allosaurus-to-eodon-t-map-spawn-hates-treasure-hunters asking to remove Allosaurus from Eodon Treasure Maps because they make these Treasure Maps way, but way too much time consuming to do for the little that they give.

Basically, not worth the hassle.....

@ Kyronix , could you please remove them and change them with a more feasible and killable creature ? Thanks.

Don't take away make them worth the time 

McDougle said:

popps said:

Drago said:

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

I bumped into this Thread from last Year https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9692/whoever-added-the-allosaurus-to-eodon-t-map-spawn-hates-treasure-hunters asking to remove Allosaurus from Eodon Treasure Maps because they make these Treasure Maps way, but way too much time consuming to do for the little that they give.

Basically, not worth the hassle.....

@ Kyronix , could you please remove them and change them with a more feasible and killable creature ? Thanks.

Don't take away make them worth the time 

Thing is, that the Developers are rather busy, I imagine, with the New Legacy Shard and, to make Eodon Maps worth the time would take a whole lot more work as compared to just replacing Allosaurus with another Creature taking much, much less time to kill....

Perhaps, in the LONG run, for when they have more time at hand to make Eodon Treasure Maps worth the time they could re-introduce Allosaurus but for now that the Developers, I suppose, do not have much time to spend on totally re-adjusting the Loot Table for Eodon Treasure Maps ?

Much quicker fix to get rid of Allosaurus for something else much, MUCH faster to be killed...

popps said:

McDougle said:

popps said:

Drago said:

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

I bumped into this Thread from last Year https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9692/whoever-added-the-allosaurus-to-eodon-t-map-spawn-hates-treasure-hunters asking to remove Allosaurus from Eodon Treasure Maps because they make these Treasure Maps way, but way too much time consuming to do for the little that they give.

Basically, not worth the hassle.....

@ Kyronix , could you please remove them and change them with a more feasible and killable creature ? Thanks.

Don't take away make them worth the time 

Thing is, that the Developers are rather busy, I imagine, with the New Legacy Shard and, to make Eodon Maps worth the time would take a whole lot more work as compared to just replacing Allosaurus with another Creature taking much, much less time to kill....

Perhaps, in the LONG run, for when they have more time at hand to make Eodon Treasure Maps worth the time they could re-introduce Allosaurus but for now that the Developers, I suppose, do not have much time to spend on totally re-adjusting the Loot Table for Eodon Treasure Maps ?

Much quicker fix to get rid of Allosaurus for something else much, MUCH faster to be killed...

I'm sorry but if they are still so busy "working " on Nl to even release a newsletter for months we have serious issues..

map are a very good way to get pink scrolls and they sell good