What Is The Real World Official Stance On Using Scripts?

I am sincere in that I am lacking understanding on what and why scripting is now being allowed as long as it’s attended scripting. I’m not wanting this to be a ‘everyone scripts and no one cares, so what’, scripting is okay, scripting isn’t okay thread. I’m hoping for no opinions, just seeking clarification and what the facts are.

My understanding has always been that using 3rd party scripts is illegal regardless of being attended or unattended. My understanding is that any modification to the program is illegal. The script programs that do effect the program that, as far as I know, have been ‘approved and okayed’ by the Devs. are UO Assist, UO Tamer and UO Rudder.

I’m now seeing unmoderated threads on how to write scripts, modify scripts that manage actions, actions that non-scripters can’t fairly compete with. I’m seriously confused on why this is being allowed. Pincos is the only program that is allowed to insert additional coding into the program and it’s just for the EC.  What was Dev’s stated reason(s) for allowing this? From the thread that I see on this forum players are now being allowed to modify Pincos? This doesn’t violate rules?

I’ve been a good rule follower for almost 25 years and I’m seriously starting to wonder why I should. I play this game to have fun, make fun for others and relax. I don’t sweat the small stuff. The game is far from perfect and we all can find something to complain about but I think, like most players, I just let go of those things that tend to bug us and just enjoy the game as is.

That being said, when I see blatant scripting such as almost 100,000 trade missions being done in just a couple months on a small shard, and see how characters ‘move magically’, ‘buy from NPCs magically’, know it’s being reported and nothing happens I start to wonder. Same thing with egg gathering. In the time I try to pick up an egg at my feet someone recalls in outside, magically appears where the egg is, grab it, magically hops over to where the other egg is, grabs that and recalls to the next spot to do the same. The average player just can’t compete with the apparent rampant scripting fairly.

And here I sit, wondering why am I being a good rule follower, thinking I shouldn’t use scripts because it’s against the rules.  My personal ethics don’t allow me to play a game where I feel like I have to have an unfair advantage over my fellow players. In my simple mind it’s either we legally allow scripts or don’t. If it’s legally allowed then all scripts should be made available to all players and we should have a designated forum where they can be posted.

So my long winded questions is what is the real world official stance on attended scripting?

Thanks from a player that’s feeling lost on this issue.

Respectfully,

AW

No answers 4 years ago.
Revisited 3rd Party Programs List ? - Ultima Online Forums (uo.com)

There is no problem at all, the fans will help to answer.

I agree. I would also like to know what is the official stance in regards to Ultima Online and scripting using unauthorized Third Party software.

Because, my understanding is that the TOS does not allow this and yet, even from posts on these forums, fellow players keep talking of players scripting, multi-clienting/multi-boxing and this keeps going on and on and on.

popps said:

I agree. I would also like to know what is the official stance in regards to Ultima Online and scripting using unauthorized Third Party software.

Because, my understanding is that the TOS does not allow this and yet, even from posts on these forums, fellow players keep talking of players scripting, multi-clienting/multi-boxing and this keeps going on and on and on.

So before you start throwing grenades Popps what is YOUR understanding of the points you raise above ie multi client and multi boxing 

The developers have to communicate....

There have been two statements in recent Meet and Greets and one solid statement during the first livestream.

From Baja, April 28, 2021 (slightly edited to remove extraneous stuff)

[Bobby]: and with the rise of higher quality third party clients, will you begin policing the use of them?

[Bobby]: Client such as BLANK, BLANKBLANK, BLANKBLANKBLANK

[Kyronix ]: As far as your CS & client related issues that’s a support concern that we will bring up with Mesanna and she’ll address it
[Kyronix ]: Thank you for the inquiries
[Kyronix ]: *smiles*
[Bobby]: I don’t have any client issues. I’m just curious if you will begin policing third party clients is all
[Kyronix ]: Aye, those client issues
[Bobby]: I’m not certain you understood my question, but okay
[Bobby]: Thanks!
[Kyronix ]: I did

From Mizhou, March 8, 2021

EM Asiantam: there are no guidance in UO which tools are legal or not
EM Asiantam: third party tool I mean
Mesanna: you mean 3rd party programs
Mesanna: such as UOA is legal
EM Asiantam: right
EM Asiantam: UOA
Mesanna: It is a short list right now but we will try to put up a page defining these
EM Asiantam: how about BLANK by BLANK
Mesanna: have not looked at it so I can not answer
Pitbull: thank you

From the first New Legacy Announcement Livestream at about 1 hour, 11 minutes, 32 seconds on September 23rd, 2020:
Mesanna: "Can you talk about the plans to address the third party programs being blocked from the new shard?" No, we can't talk about something we really haven't investigated or have the direction to tell you where we're going. So, we are aware of it, we don't like it, we're gonna do what we can to make everything fair. We wish we could just snap our fingers and the game would be equal and no one would cheat. But it's kind of like the old saying, "the one with the most toys win," and some people feel like they have to cheat to get the toys, unfortunately. 

Personally, I think this issue goes beyond an off-the-cuff answer or a post-in-haste here on the forum. It's obvious anti-scripting/anti-cheating notions are being built into the design of recent events. We may all have to be content with the understanding that this is their final answer on this. That only meaningful things they can do is design around it. 

I think it's easy for us all to say they need to be heavy-handed on this problem, and perhaps they do, but I'm not sure I want to stick around to see what those heavy-handed solutions are. Is that sunsetting the classic client? Is that installing Punkbuster or some sort of contemporary data-integrity program? Is it (god help us) moving the game to the Origin Launcher?

If there is to be a frank discussion about this issue that finds the equitable solution Mesanna speaks about, I'd prefer it to include notions about how other MMOs handle third-party programs. We certainly aren't the only ones who struggle with this problem.

deleted

Yoshi said:

"I am 100% sure it is illegal to use third party clients.

 In the alliance i am in today 259 members in discord, of which roughly 9 using official clients. none have ever been banned or had any action taken against them or given any warning for using non official client.

But just to stress it is illegal"

Boy way to sell out the crew ...

Didn't Bonnie say at a M&G that if you were there then everything was OK or something like that.  My understanding is that she hates AFK and Multiboxing and everything else she just looks the other way.

@AmberWitch I am with you 100% but you know that the older we get the harder it is to play for long periods of time before we physically start to hurt.  Crafting/BODs upgrade was a god send, to much clicking hurts and yes for 25 years I have also followed the rules and every day I ask my self why when UO does not enforce their own rules.

" warning Stop referencing the unofficial clients in your posts. Failure to do so will lead to a suspension of your posting ability."

Mariah said:

As far as I am aware no illicit scripts are shown on this forum, only edits to EC Lua files, which is allowed, anyone playing EC with the right skills can create a player written UI. That's how EC is designed. If I have missed a script that does not conform to this, please send me the link so that I can check.

 Pinco's is merely a player written UI - not different to any other, except others chose to use his rather than write their own.

I agree with you @AmberWitch as I'm in the same boat. I play CC and only use UOA for fear that the first time I log into some 3rd party client, a GM would show up and ban me shortly after (I've felt that way for the past 10-15 years or so since I saw people scripting). I think that 10+ years ago this might have happened but things seem much more lenient these days with the only real "no-no" being macroing/scripting unattended.

I think it was posted somewhere (can't remember where though) that when Mesanna was asked about cheating; her response was something to the effect of "do whatever it takes to win". I've always said that I felt like they sort of started to enable scripting with the release of EC because the macro files are just so advanced it gives players all the tags they need to modify the script into something maybe not intended.

My thought is that as long as you aren't super abusive with a script (ie running 10 accounts at once to plow through everything in Destard), the GMs probably won't bother you.

Lot of people use EaXX
Lot of people use SteXXX
Lot of people use RaXXXX
and now everyone that I know moved to ORXXXX

and I know a LOT of people with custom Pincos mods and Eula scripts modifications that does everything ALL other programs does and faster.

I mean, if you look at the Redit from GM River, they all use as well, They cant just say anything or will never say anything because liability , if they support 3rd party software's someone will have to pay someone , so , I dont see anything happened.

just like they say, just do whatever you feel like as long as you not AFK.

My keyboard can do macros. I can tell it to press a key every x seconds so it repeats an EC macro. That repeats 10x. 

My keyboard can do lots more than that, but I have enough trouble attacking the correct mob to use any more stuff. 

UO or any game can not tell what is pushing the buttons.

I imagine it wouldn't be rocket science for the UO server to detect "unauthorized" clients interacting with it.  It's then a policy decision what to do about accounts where this is detected..

A google search might turn up scripts that sound like they fully automate the egg collecting process, turn in, reward collection, etc.

Of course, there's the likely EJ account mis-use angle to consider.

Put some systemic curbs on EJ accounts:

1. EJ accounts can no longer be in Felucca.
2. EJ accounts cannot pickup event items like eggs.  (good suggestion from somebody else).
3. EJ accounts cannot get drops during events.

UO/BS/EA can not afford to ban accounts that use 3rd party programs.  Am I saying to use them, NO but look at the facts, can we afford to lose that many accounts and keep UO/DAoC/BS in business.  EA will just shit it all down.

Lord_Frodo said:

UO/BS/EA can not afford to ban accounts that use 3rd party programs.  Am I saying to use them, NO but look at the facts, can we afford to lose that many accounts and keep UO/DAoC/BS in business.  EA will just shit it all down.

Exactly how would EA know if I am pushing a button or a macro is "pushing" it.  They only have spam detection if you do commands too fast.  Say something then press cntr Q real fast over and over and you will see that.

The game has no way to tell how the signal was sent to them, by a player or a macro.  Players use macros all the time. EC client has delays that you can put in macros.

All of this will come up again when NL is out and players have all 100 skills in a few hours.  Some will do it by power gaming, some will do it with macros. A certain old guy will come to the forum exclaiming he has 50 wrestling but he hears of players having GM in all the melee skills already.

Then the cheater wagon will pull up and blame cheating and EJ accounts. Ill take 100k NL gold when that prediction comes true.

keven2002 said:

I agree with you @ AmberWitch as I'm in the same boat. I play CC and only use UOA for fear that the first time I log into some 3rd party client, a GM would show up and ban me shortly after (I've felt that way for the past 10-15 years or so since I saw people scripting). I think that 10+ years ago this might have happened but things seem much more lenient these days with the only real "no-no" being macroing/scripting unattended.

I think it was posted somewhere (can't remember where though) that when Mesanna was asked about cheating; her response was something to the effect of "do whatever it takes to win". I've always said that I felt like they sort of started to enable scripting with the release of EC because the macro files are just so advanced it gives players all the tags they need to modify the script into something maybe not intended.

My thought is that as long as you aren't super abusive with a script (ie running 10 accounts at once to plow through everything in Destard), the GMs probably won't bother you.

The macro in EC is better than CC but it's hardly near other 3rd party CC. 

CC 3rd party can register location on map or screen by coordinates so can program them to move between any location u pick. 

Another powerful feature is the ability tp record actions and without knowledge of the script and then just repeat them. 

EC scripts is far less powerful but even if it's possible we need to know how to script. The CC 3rd party just let you "Record" actions. It's like the record macro function is Microsoft office so you don't even need to write the script.

For some advance CC scripts programs there is a wiki and ready made scripts which anyone can download and modify to suit one's need. EC doesn't have that, it's either Pinco or good luck asking someone to fix an UI issue here.

Pawain said:

Lord_Frodo said:

UO/BS/EA can not afford to ban accounts that use 3rd party programs.  Am I saying to use them, NO but look at the facts, can we afford to lose that many accounts and keep UO/DAoC/BS in business.  EA will just shit it all down.

Exactly how would EA know if I am pushing a button or a macro is "pushing" it.  They only have spam detection if you do commands too fast.  Say something then press cntr Q real fast over and over and you will see that.

The game has no way to tell how the signal was sent to them, by a player or a macro.  Players use macros all the time. EC client has delays that you can put in macros.

Do you know what a #rd party program is, probably not as you used the EC as an example.  LMAO

Lord_Frodo said:

Pawain said:

Lord_Frodo said:

UO/BS/EA can not afford to ban accounts that use 3rd party programs.  Am I saying to use them, NO but look at the facts, can we afford to lose that many accounts and keep UO/DAoC/BS in business.  EA will just shit it all down.

Exactly how would EA know if I am pushing a button or a macro is "pushing" it.  They only have spam detection if you do commands too fast.  Say something then press cntr Q real fast over and over and you will see that.

The game has no way to tell how the signal was sent to them, by a player or a macro.  Players use macros all the time. EC client has delays that you can put in macros.

Do you know what a #rd party program is, probably not as you used the EC as an example.  LMAO

Do you think UO knows what program "pushed" the X button?  It does not.  LMAO back at you.

UIs just give the program commands it knows, the program does not care where it came from.

All the 3rd party programs simulate EC or CC.  They just have better macros.

Hell yes UO knows, they just choose to look the other way.

Lord_Frodo said:

Hell yes UO knows, they just choose to look the other way.

Well @Yoshi can settle this.  Do your friends need to have either CC or EC on their computer to use the O 3rd party program.

This is getting off track. Simply looking for a truthful answer as to whether or not attended scripting in now legal and allowed.

AmberWitch said:

This is getting off track. Simply looking for a truthful answer as to whether or not attended scripting in now legal and allowed.

You need to define scripting.  IMO these EC macros they are showing us how to make is scripting.

Most things are compared to me using CC only.

I really do not think anyone from UO is going to answer your question.

If you are attended and doing something you can do with just EC or CC then it must be ok.  If it is not, then you will just get a warning if using a paid account.

AmberWitch said:

This is getting off track. Simply looking for a truthful answer as to whether or not attended scripting in now legal and allowed.

Scripting is simply automation, or macros like those in Microsoft. So far I believe they are only against:

1) AFK macroing (including scripts)
2) Multi boxing (not multi client)
3) Using impassable objects to block locations

How we macro, using 3rd party macro, keyboard, or scripts - can be observed but it may not always be obvious which is used. But the advanced CC scripts can do alot more.

The developers need to communicate @Mesanna ;

ForeverFun said:

I imagine it wouldn't be rocket science for the UO server to detect "unauthorized" clients interacting with it.  It's then a policy decision what to do about accounts where this is detected..

A google search might turn up scripts that sound like they fully automate the egg collecting process, turn in, reward collection, etc.

Of course, there's the likely EJ account mis-use angle to consider.

Put some systemic curbs on EJ accounts:

1. EJ accounts can no longer be in Felucca.
2. EJ accounts cannot pickup event items like eggs.  (good suggestion from somebody else).
3. EJ accounts cannot get drops during events.

Pawain said:

AmberWitch said:

This is getting off track. Simply looking for a truthful answer as to whether or not attended scripting in now legal and allowed.

You need to define scripting.  IMO these EC macros they are showing us how to make is scripting.

Most things are compared to me using CC only.

I really do not think anyone from UO is going to answer your question.

If you are attended and doing something you can do with just EC or CC then it must be ok.  If it is not, then you will just get a warning if using a paid account.

Re-read what I posted above. 

Do a google search.

Recalling around to every location in a runebook, walking to any eggs on screen, picking up eggs, insuring the eggs in the backpack, recalling to a crystal ball that then takes you outside destard (and cannot be blocked), turning in marked quest items, claiming rewards, using an EJ account with basically zero skills and zero risk, hours on end, triggered by a single click ...  This should sound pretty familiar to those on several shards.

That's a little different than holding down CTRL-SHIFT in EC, with an EC tweak posted in this forum, to pickup the egg that is nearby.

I imagine most of this (and related issues) can be mitigated by curbing EJ account usage.

One can study up on client/server models to understand how it may be possible to detect "unauthorized" clients.

ForeverFun said:
One can study up on client/server models to understand how it may be possible to detect "unauthorized" clients.

Do that, email the results to Mesanna and save UO.

ForeverFun said:

ForeverFun said:

I imagine it wouldn't be rocket science for the UO server to detect "unauthorized" clients interacting with it.  It's then a policy decision what to do about accounts where this is detected..

A google search might turn up scripts that sound like they fully automate the egg collecting process, turn in, reward collection, etc.

Of course, there's the likely EJ account mis-use angle to consider.

Put some systemic curbs on EJ accounts:

1. EJ accounts can no longer be in Felucca.
2. EJ accounts cannot pickup event items like eggs.  (good suggestion from somebody else).
3. EJ accounts cannot get drops during events.

Pawain said:

AmberWitch said:

This is getting off track. Simply looking for a truthful answer as to whether or not attended scripting in now legal and allowed.

You need to define scripting.  IMO these EC macros they are showing us how to make is scripting.

Most things are compared to me using CC only.

I really do not think anyone from UO is going to answer your question.

If you are attended and doing something you can do with just EC or CC then it must be ok.  If it is not, then you will just get a warning if using a paid account.

Re-read what I posted above. 

Do a google search.

Recalling around to every location in a runebook, walking to any eggs on screen, picking up eggs, insuring the eggs in the backpack, recalling to a crystal ball that then takes you outside destard (and cannot be blocked), turning in marked quest items, claiming rewards, using an EJ account with basically zero skills and zero risk, hours on end, triggered by a single click ...  This should sound pretty familiar to those on several shards.

That's a little different than holding down CTRL-SHIFT in EC, with an EC tweak posted in this forum, to pickup the egg that is nearby.

I imagine most of this (and related issues) can be mitigated by curbing EJ account usage.

One can study up on client/server models to understand how it may be possible to detect "unauthorized" clients.

Yep, they need to understand the power of the dark, dark side. EC scripts are just minor tweaks, and the difference is HuGE

Removed

Yoshi said:

“A lot of misinformation in this thread,
when you log into UO, if you try to log in using a non - patched client, the login is rejected by the server. So UO must know what client and version you are using in order to accept the log in, they are actively allowing log ins from third party clients. 

A player can instantly tell if another player is using an official client or not, there is no auto run around objects on official classic client, so why would broadsword not be able to tell?”

You are contradicting yourself.  You said it rejects a non approved client then you said it lets them log on.

Clear it up with Q and A.

1.  Can someone log into UO without using EC or CC?  Meaning those are not running at all.

If yes, shouldn't they be able to not let that log in?  You are putting your account name and password in their client?

Or do those interfaces run on top of EC or CC?  Like Pincos  and UOA.

“I said it rejects non patched. Meaning old clients.

Please stop referencing the unofficial clients in your posts. Failure to do so will lead to a suspension of your posting ability."

Yoshi said:

“I said it rejects non patched. Meaning old clients.

Please stop referencing the unofficial clients in your posts. Failure to do so will lead to a suspension of your posting ability."

Hi Yoshi I don’t post here often but lurk and have wondered are you a moderator or employee here? 

“Absolutely not.

I am just assuming that rules do not apply to only me.”

Seth said:

EC scripts is far less powerful but even if it's possible we need to know how to script. The CC 3rd party just let you "Record" actions. It's like the record macro function is Microsoft office so you don't even need to write the script.

For some advance CC scripts programs there is a wiki and ready made scripts which anyone can download and modify to suit one's need. EC doesn't have that, it's either Pinco or good luck asking someone to fix an UI issue here.

Interesting... tell me more 

I don't use third 3rd party programs so I can't speak to them or how they work. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to being able to record a macro based on clicks / etc and being able to put that on a single button (ie press a button and target all 10 eggs I need to turn in). I don't think anyone would really be opposed to that. I think the problem comes into play when people are basically taking that piece of harmless QoL macro and then adding it to a very complex scripted macro that essentially allows them to play the game without any interaction.

I won't promote using the scripts with CC, but stating that it's no secret and not surprising that a 1997 software cannot stop 3rd party.

I am collecting eggs in EC with just simple object filter plus pickup macro. I am happy if I can press a button to pick up what I need, and not having to drag into bag. 

All those Lua scripts we discussed? It's just to perform "basic" tasks to pick up eggs. I still run to the eggs and press button to pick up, then another macro to open spellbook and decide where to recall next. The EC scripts we discussed here are so basic that anyone will laugh when compared to what CC scripts can do.

My take is 3rd party scripts won't go away unless CC is decommissioned and blocked from login.

Relvinian said:

Yoshi said:

“I said it rejects non patched. Meaning old clients.

Please stop referencing the unofficial clients in your posts. Failure to do so will lead to a suspension of your posting ability."

Hi Yoshi I don’t post here often but lurk and have wondered are you a moderator or employee here? 

He just likes to pretend he is.

Seth said:

I won't promote using the scripts with CC, but stating that it's no secret and not surprising that a 1997 software cannot stop 3rd party.

I am collecting eggs in EC with just simple object filter plus pickup macro. I am happy if I can press a button to pick up what I need, and not having to drag into bag. 

All those Lua scripts we discussed? It's just to perform "basic" tasks to pick up eggs. I still run to the eggs and press button to pick up, then another macro to open spellbook and decide where to recall next. The EC scripts we discussed here are so basic that anyone will laugh when compared to what CC scripts can do.

My take is 3rd party scripts won't go away unless CC is decommissioned and blocked from login.

Continue from above...

I read earlier the plan was to sunset CC after 80%(?) of users adopt the new EC.
Apparently, that did not happen and many players are still using CC - perhaps due to PVP, speed, and of course, 3rd party. Let's be honest and open. 

So that prompted the Dev not only to continue support for CC but also upgraded it (recently?).

There is no way to remove CC to stop scripters now as it would affect this "substantial" number of users. So this is perhaps the reason why Dev has silently allowed scripters as long as the player themselves are not AFK. 

In summary, 3rd party scripts are here to stay. Removing it requires removing CC which is like removing a vital organ. It will affect so many that might as well shut down the game. We have to understand why "they" did things in a certain way and perhaps see a clearer picture than all of us.

~~~ except SHARD BOUND! Imagine if they didn't introduce Character Transfer more than 10 years ago, UO Might already be DEAD. I am 100% sure because I and many of my friends I knew won't last as long in the game without cross shard buying. I am the living proof SHARD BOUND is a TOTAL crap. The transfer shield is the reason why I am paying for extra accounts and still in this game.

Seth said:

Seth said:

I won't promote using the scripts with CC, but stating that it's no secret and not surprising that a 1997 software cannot stop 3rd party.

I am collecting eggs in EC with just simple object filter plus pickup macro. I am happy if I can press a button to pick up what I need, and not having to drag into bag. 

All those Lua scripts we discussed? It's just to perform "basic" tasks to pick up eggs. I still run to the eggs and press button to pick up, then another macro to open spellbook and decide where to recall next. The EC scripts we discussed here are so basic that anyone will laugh when compared to what CC scripts can do.

My take is 3rd party scripts won't go away unless CC is decommissioned and blocked from login.

Continue from above...

I read earlier the plan was to sunset CC after 80%(?) of users adopt the new EC.
Apparently, that did not happen and many players are still using CC - perhaps due to PVP, speed, and of course, 3rd party. Let's be honest and open. 

So that prompted the Dev not only to continue support for CC but also upgraded it (recently?).

There is no way to remove CC to stop scripters now as it would affect this "substantial" number of users. So this is perhaps the reason why Dev has silently allowed scripters as long as the player themselves are not AFK. 

In summary, 3rd party scripts are here to stay. Removing it requires removing CC which is like removing a vital organ. It will affect so many that might as well shut down the game. We have to understand why "they" did things in a certain way and perhaps see a clearer picture than all of us.

~~~ except SHARD BOUND! Imagine if they didn't introduce Character Transfer more than 10 years ago, UO Might already be DEAD. I am 100% sure because I and many of my friends I knew won't last as long in the game without cross shard buying. I am the living proof SHARD BOUND is a TOTAL crap. The transfer shield is the reason why I am paying for extra accounts and still in this game.

Seth said:

Seth said:

Seth said:

I won't promote using the scripts with CC, but stating that it's no secret and not surprising that a 1997 software cannot stop 3rd party.

I am collecting eggs in EC with just simple object filter plus pickup macro. I am happy if I can press a button to pick up what I need, and not having to drag into bag. 

All those Lua scripts we discussed? It's just to perform "basic" tasks to pick up eggs. I still run to the eggs and press button to pick up, then another macro to open spellbook and decide where to recall next. The EC scripts we discussed here are so basic that anyone will laugh when compared to what CC scripts can do.

My take is 3rd party scripts won't go away unless CC is decommissioned and blocked from login.

Continue from above...

I read earlier the plan was to sunset CC after 80%(?) of users adopt the new EC.
Apparently, that did not happen and many players are still using CC - perhaps due to PVP, speed, and of course, 3rd party. Let's be honest and open. 

So that prompted the Dev not only to continue support for CC but also upgraded it (recently?).

There is no way to remove CC to stop scripters now as it would affect this "substantial" number of users. So this is perhaps the reason why Dev has silently allowed scripters as long as the player themselves are not AFK. 

In summary, 3rd party scripts are here to stay. Removing it requires removing CC which is like removing a vital organ. It will affect so many that might as well shut down the game. We have to understand why "they" did things in a certain way and perhaps see a clearer picture than all of us.

~~~ except SHARD BOUND! Imagine if they didn't introduce Character Transfer more than 10 years ago, UO Might already be DEAD. I am 100% sure because I and many of my friends I knew won't last as long in the game without cross shard buying. I am the living proof SHARD BOUND is a TOTAL crap. The transfer shield is the reason why I am paying for extra accounts and still in this game.

Continuing from the above...

Why they created the egg picking easy activity but stopped the "pile" in the dungeon and raise the difficulty. This is because both activities are somewhat part of the intended game design.

• You can go around to pick up items in exchange for rewards
• You need to go around killing monsters to get drop

But standing at one location 24/7 to milk the spawn is not the intended for any game design. We don't stand in one location to kill monsters in any rpg from beginning to the end.

But the damage has already been done! So let the latecomers continue to get the rewards as easy as the pile but using a proper gameplay method. Picking things from the floor is considered proper.

The dungeon is still available but only for those who prefer action but the drop could have been better to match picking the eggs.

I've said over and over it's not any of these bugs or brokenness it's the continued lack of communication from the developers.  acknowledgement and accountability...... @Mesanna

McDougle said:

Seth said:

Seth said:

Seth said:

I won't promote using the scripts with CC, but stating that it's no secret and not surprising that a 1997 software cannot stop 3rd party.

I am collecting eggs in EC with just simple object filter plus pickup macro. I am happy if I can press a button to pick up what I need, and not having to drag into bag. 

All those Lua scripts we discussed? It's just to perform "basic" tasks to pick up eggs. I still run to the eggs and press button to pick up, then another macro to open spellbook and decide where to recall next. The EC scripts we discussed here are so basic that anyone will laugh when compared to what CC scripts can do.

My take is 3rd party scripts won't go away unless CC is decommissioned and blocked from login.

Continue from above...

I read earlier the plan was to sunset CC after 80%(?) of users adopt the new EC.
Apparently, that did not happen and many players are still using CC - perhaps due to PVP, speed, and of course, 3rd party. Let's be honest and open. 

So that prompted the Dev not only to continue support for CC but also upgraded it (recently?).

There is no way to remove CC to stop scripters now as it would affect this "substantial" number of users. So this is perhaps the reason why Dev has silently allowed scripters as long as the player themselves are not AFK. 

In summary, 3rd party scripts are here to stay. Removing it requires removing CC which is like removing a vital organ. It will affect so many that might as well shut down the game. We have to understand why "they" did things in a certain way and perhaps see a clearer picture than all of us.

~~~ except SHARD BOUND! Imagine if they didn't introduce Character Transfer more than 10 years ago, UO Might already be DEAD. I am 100% sure because I and many of my friends I knew won't last as long in the game without cross shard buying. I am the living proof SHARD BOUND is a TOTAL crap. The transfer shield is the reason why I am paying for extra accounts and still in this game.

Continuing from the above...

Why they created the egg picking easy activity but stopped the "pile" in the dungeon and raise the difficulty. This is because both activities are somewhat part of the intended game design.

• You can go around to pick up items in exchange for rewards
• You need to go around killing monsters to get drop

But standing at one location 24/7 to milk the spawn is not the intended for any game design. We don't stand in one location to kill monsters in any rpg from beginning to the end.

But the damage has already been done! So let the latecomers continue to get the rewards as easy as the pile but using a proper gameplay method. Picking things from the floor is considered proper.

The dungeon is still available but only for those who prefer action but the drop could have been better to match picking the eggs.

I've said over and over it's not any of these bugs or brokenness it's the continued lack of communication from the developers.  acknowledgement and accountability...... @ Mesanna

A few thoughts on the topics in this thread:

1. It doesn’t really matter what the written rule is if it’s not enforced.  ToS says no (or only approved) 3rd party programs… but it seems enforcement says if you’re attended and can answer questions separately on separate clients you’re good to go.

2. How some of these unofficial clients look to the server is something only the Devs can answer.  It’s possible there is something there they can see different, or maybe they are designed to deliberately mimic how the official clients look server side.

3. Most of the 3rd party software (not clients) that interact with CC can not be detected via the data stream.  They interact client side on the local pc and look just like a user initiated event to the server.

4.  EC mods can do almost everything that the CC 3rd party programs can, and do it faster/better.  There are some obvious exceptions to this such as using rails for moving.

5. Without promoting any specific program or play style, I’m on the side of attended play, with or without elaborate macros/scripts, in either client should be legal.  I also think that any client capable of playing UO should also be legal.  And I think our Dev team should come out and make that the official policy.  This is my opinion not because I do/want to cheat, but because then the playing field is level.  If client X offers some advantages in PvP, then everyone who wants to PvP should be able to legally use that client if they choose.  If program A or UI B can automate harvesting seeds or looting gold or picking up eggs, etc, then anyone who wants those QoL enhancements should feel free to use them.  In my opinion that policy would also level the playing field a little between clients.  The legal EC can do so many things that the CC can’t I feel it creates issues. Like the change which allowed multi-clienting years ago, it should be at the users risk and not supported by UO.  

EM's use them
Dev's most like use them
Players use them...

Only reason will never make to the approval list, is bc liability and that someone will need to pay someone for the license and NONE of the parts involved want that. so the best solution is Not say a thing about!

I think it's unfortunate that players who lack skills to modify the game files have to deal with the effects of players who do. A game people pay a monthly subscription for shouldn't force players to know how to modify the game files with code language to stay on a level playing field with everyone else. Just my opinion.

This should have been the shortest thread ever the OPs question and a reply from a developer....

BardrisCaller1 said:

I think it's unfortunate that players who lack skills to modify the game files have to deal with the effects of players who do. A game people pay a monthly subscription for shouldn't force players to know how to modify the game files with code language to stay on a level playing field with everyone else. Just my opinion.

Mariah and players here are sharing what they are coming up with here.

Since there are unlimited things you can do with EC, they can not put it all in.  These eggs and other names were not in the game when EC was made. 

Pawain said:

BardrisCaller1 said:

I think it's unfortunate that players who lack skills to modify the game files have to deal with the effects of players who do. A game people pay a monthly subscription for shouldn't force players to know how to modify the game files with code language to stay on a level playing field with everyone else. Just my opinion.

Mariah and players here are sharing what they are coming up with here.

Since there are unlimited things you can do with EC, they can not put it all in.  These eggs and other names were not in the game when EC was made. 

I understand that but you can't expect some players to know how to access game files and not accidentally royally mess them up. But again, this is just my single opinion. It's not a stab at anybody in particular. I get that this is just how the game has evolved. I used to PVP and go on raids in fel and do all that fun stuff but I really don't have the energy to figure out how to do all that with the game files. I'll just stick to growing plants lol.

Funny, I pay 14.99 a month to grow digital plants and my actual garden is a wasteland 😂

Same. They say we will have no rain this month. And it will be the worst drought since the year 400.

I also do not care to deal with modifying files.  Plain CC does what I need.  But it is good that those that want to do that, have the opportunity.

Pawain said:

Same. They say we will have no rain this month. And it will be the worst drought since the year 400.

I also do not care to deal with modifying files.  Plain CC does what I need.  But it is good that those that want to do that, have the opportunity.

I can send some Oregon rain we have extra 

Merus said:

A few thoughts on the topics in this thread:

1. It doesn’t really matter what the written rule is if it’s not enforced.  ToS says no (or only approved) 3rd party programs… but it seems enforcement says if you’re attended and can answer questions separately on separate clients you’re good to go.

2. How some of these unofficial clients look to the server is something only the Devs can answer.  It’s possible there is something there they can see different, or maybe they are designed to deliberately mimic how the official clients look server side.

3. Most of the 3rd party software (not clients) that interact with CC can not be detected via the data stream.  They interact client side on the local pc and look just like a user initiated event to the server.

4.  EC mods can do almost everything that the CC 3rd party programs can, and do it faster/better.  There are some obvious exceptions to this such as using rails for moving.

5. Without promoting any specific program or play style, I’m on the side of attended play, with or without elaborate macros/scripts, in either client should be legal.  I also think that any client capable of playing UO should also be legal.  And I think our Dev team should come out and make that the official policy.  This is my opinion not because I do/want to cheat, but because then the playing field is level.  If client X offers some advantages in PvP, then everyone who wants to PvP should be able to legally use that client if they choose.  If program A or UI B can automate harvesting seeds or looting gold or picking up eggs, etc, then anyone who wants those QoL enhancements should feel free to use them.  In my opinion that policy would also level the playing field a little between clients.  The legal EC can do so many things that the CC can’t I feel it creates issues. Like the change which allowed multi-clienting years ago, it should be at the users risk and not supported by UO.  

Let the GMs focus on true multi-boxing (which should remain illegal IMO) and unattended scripting… things neither client can legally do.

Me thinks they will not make 3rd party client official as the 3rd party is not updated and fully supported like UOA in the past. 

The easy way will be determined by actions rather than what program, which may include 3rd party or other generic oe keyboard software such as Logitech macros.

I think it is clear now that we won't get banned by using 3rd party but what it actually does, and so far 3 are confirmed: multibox, blocking, AFK.

It seems we can macro repeatedly as long as it's in the house and not affecting others, e.g. macro skills are ok, but macro killing a daemon in a room 24/7 is banned.

Perhaps no one report if u macro in the house, but macro killing a spawn can be seen and reported.

The biggest issue are these 3rd party clients. I'll leave it at that. If you know, then you know. Why they allow them to connect to servers is beyond hilarious. 

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

Same. They say we will have no rain this month. And it will be the worst drought since the year 400.

I also do not care to deal with modifying files.  Plain CC does what I need.  But it is good that those that want to do that, have the opportunity.

I can send some Oregon rain we have extra 

By all means, lets get a canal built asap. Need to water my lawn.

“Official classic client has:
no auto run around objects

no mobiles bar

Targets neutral animals, guilded greys/reds, and dead pets with select//attack nearest hostile..

username said:

The biggest issue are these 3rd party clients. I'll leave it at that. If you know, then you know. Why they allow them to connect to servers is beyond hilarious. 

The thing that connects is still the client, not the 3rd party. The 3rd party just hooks on and program to run client side automation. 3rd party has nothing to do with the server as far as I know or if it does then it's considered a serious security breach.

Example, a script that tells the client to move character between places to pick up things, attack, loot and recall etc... these are all client processes.

E.g. a 3rd party program that helps you submit a form to an online bank, is different from a program that actually connects and hacks into the online bank and control the account. The latter is a police case.

Seth said:

username said:

The biggest issue are these 3rd party clients. I'll leave it at that. If you know, then you know. Why they allow them to connect to servers is beyond hilarious. 

The thing that connects is still the client, not the 3rd party. The 3rd party just hooks on and program to run client side automation. 3rd party has nothing to do with the server as far as I know or if it does then it's considered a serious security breach.

Example, a script that tells the client to move character between places to pick up things, attack, loot and recall etc... these are all client processes.

E.g. a 3rd party program that helps you submit a form to an online bank, is different from a program that actually connects and hacks into the online bank and control the account. The latter is a police case.

I completely understand what you're saying and you may be correct. However, one describes itself as, "Alternative client for playing Ultima Online, maximally emulating all known versions of the 2D client." which sounds to me describes what I'm talking about, a completely from-scratch client, not something that just interacts with the client. I don't know. I have no idea which one it is as I've never used it and never will. Don't feel like getting my account stolen today (or any day) by some Russians.

username said:

Seth said:

username said:

The biggest issue are these 3rd party clients. I'll leave it at that. If you know, then you know. Why they allow them to connect to servers is beyond hilarious. 

The thing that connects is still the client, not the 3rd party. The 3rd party just hooks on and program to run client side automation. 3rd party has nothing to do with the server as far as I know or if it does then it's considered a serious security breach.

Example, a script that tells the client to move character between places to pick up things, attack, loot and recall etc... these are all client processes.

E.g. a 3rd party program that helps you submit a form to an online bank, is different from a program that actually connects and hacks into the online bank and control the account. The latter is a police case.

I completely understand what you're saying and you may be correct. However, one describes itself as, "Alternative client for playing Ultima Online, maximally emulating all known versions of the 2D client." which sounds to me describes what I'm talking about, a completely from-scratch client, not something that just interacts with the client. I don't know. I have no idea which one it is as I've never used it and never will. Don't feel like getting my account stolen today (or any day) by some Russians.

I think I heard something like an alternative client from pvp threads. If that exists then I agree it's risky.

“I have some answers to questions or concerns raised here however cannot post as,

Maybe they issue warnings to serial xxxx who knew about these programs for years and possess legendary skills in uncovering exploits in the system.  

The rest of us are just innocent, common folks intrigued by what we googled about CC scripts only recently, after seeing the egg bots and destard pile up... 

Seth said:

Maybe they issue warnings to serial xxxx who knew about these programs for years and possess legendary skills in uncovering exploits in the system.  

The rest of us are just innocent, common folks intrigued by what we googled about CC scripts only recently, after seeing the egg bots and destard pile up... 

Watching videos of illegal clients was eye opening 

McDougle said:

Seth said:

Maybe they issue warnings to serial xxxx who knew about these programs for years and possess legendary skills in uncovering exploits in the system.  

The rest of us are just innocent, common folks intrigued by what we googled about CC scripts only recently, after seeing the egg bots and destard pile up... 

Watching videos of illegal clients was eye opening 

Yup, and they can be addictive. 

After 60 posts to this thread there seems to be few known official statements and per Jepeth’s research those seem to be evasive and inconclusive. The most recent statement from the April 2021 M&G was from Kyronix saying they’ll bring it up with Mesanna and she’ll address it......

 For the heck of it I started perusing the UO Newsletters that I could find easily, to look at the CS actions regarding 3rd party programing and found actions were taken for such back in 2020 through March 2021.

 An example of such:

January 21 Newsletter #5

Finally, here are the CS actions for the month of December:
24 Solicitation
2   Disruptive Behavior
8   Third Party Program
87 Macroing

 So this leads me to understand that there is the ability to determine 3rd party use. From what I could find in the newsletters sometime after March 2021 actions for 3rd party programs stopped.  Understand that there may have been, I just couldn’t locate the newsletters April - August in the hour I gave myself to research. I don't know if there were any during that time period. After August there were none.

If non-communication is the appropriate way to communicate because of the reasons people have stated then each will glean what they want from that silence. A lack of clarity in any response over time from those that hold the all the cards only causes friction. From most of the posts it's understood that people, 'other people,' use scripts commonly without recourse. To me that speaks as loudly and clearly as Jepeth's research.

 Ultima Online has been a world shaker in the gaming industry and I don’t know… maybe it’s time to shake things up again and bite the bullet and just have a forum where folk can post scripts so everyone has access to them. We can just let the bots and scripts battle it out and see where it all ends up.

Meanwhile I’ll be that little witch who doesn’t care about gold or uber suits having a blast playing the way that I’ve played for almost 25 years now.

At the top left of a newsletter it has a clicky for past issues.

That takes you here:
https://us9.campaign-archive.com/home/?u=17d7bd79de495239fca33bcf5&id=3b563e3983

It just goes back to 2019.

The latest newsletter:

2 - Abuse of game mechanics 
5 - Solicitation 
71-  Macroing 
79 - Multiboxing
3 - Disruptive Behavior
1 - Physical Harassment
2 - Staff Impersonation

AmberWitch said:

After 60 posts to this thread there seems to be few known official statements and per Jepeth’s research those seem to be evasive and inconclusive. The most recent statement from the April 2021 M&G was from Kyronix saying they’ll bring it up with Mesanna and she’ll address it......

 For the heck of it I started perusing the UO Newsletters that I could find easily, to look at the CS actions regarding 3rd party programing and found actions were taken for such back in 2020 through March 2021.

 An example of such:

January 21 Newsletter #5

Finally, here are the CS actions for the month of December:
24 Solicitation
2   Disruptive Behavior
8   Third Party Program
87 Macroing

 So this leads me to understand that there is the ability to determine 3rd party use. From what I could find in the newsletters sometime after March 2021 actions for 3rd party programs stopped.  Understand that there may have been, I just couldn’t locate the newsletters April - August in the hour I gave myself to research. I don't know if there were any during that time period. After August there were none.

If non-communication is the appropriate way to communicate because of the reasons people have stated then each will glean what they want from that silence. A lack of clarity in any response over time from those that hold the all the cards only causes friction. From most of the posts it's understood that people, 'other people,' use scripts commonly without recourse. To me that speaks as loudly and clearly as Jepeth's research.

 Ultima Online has been a world shaker in the gaming industry and I don’t know… maybe it’s time to shake things up again and bite the bullet and just have a forum where folk can post scripts so everyone has access to them. We can just let the bots and scripts battle it out and see where it all ends up.

Meanwhile I’ll be that little witch who doesn’t care about gold or uber suits having a blast playing the way that I’ve played for almost 25 years now.

Respectfully,

AW

Agreed, the actions take are generic descriptions but does not addresss script actions.

It says ban 3rd party and macro, but what actions were banned? EC and CC both have some macro ability though not comparable to 3rd party. 

“I can show many screenshots of ally members being pulled by gms for trashtalking etc, GMs then happily let them go on their way and don’t mention anything about the client they are using.

but what is kinda funny is when people accuse other people of using this script or that script in PvP, they will share videos and screenshots saying look no cheats and forget that their whole client is not even legal and the whole client is technically a cheat. 

Yoshi said:

“I can show many screenshots of ally members being pulled by gms for trashtalking etc, GMs then happily let them go on their way and don’t mention anything about the client they are using”

But have YOU reported them for using said client? Have you considered that you and your non reporting are as much the problem as these cheaters are?

“Report what? 

Yoshi said:

“I can show many screenshots of ally members being pulled by gms for trashtalking etc, GMs then happily let them go on their way and don’t mention anything about the client they are using.

but what is kinda funny is when people accuse other people of using this script or that script in PvP, they will share videos and screenshots saying look no cheats and forget that their whole client is not even legal and the whole client is technically a cheat. 

Even when they try and crop an image to post here, it has been so many years since they used an official client that they forget that conflags and houses etc don’t look like that on official client.

Sync scripting even used to be considered cheating where one person controls the targeting and release of spells so you’re almost multiboxing with other people’s spells/attacks and this gets shared to ally members. But now every guild seems to do it, it’s just part of the game.
But this just makes the official client targeting bugs even worse. If you’re playing against an opponent team who can all target someone on your team instantly, but let us say everyone on your team was using official client and they had to scroll through all the invalid neutral animals, dead pets, grey fellow guild members before they target the right orange…

Okay first time team dies irritating, 10’000th time team dies, they get their whole guild to download client and sync script too.
But even without sync scripting the classic client targeting issues make the client uncompetitive. Yes you can still play it, but you will die over and over and over due to the client. Try running away from 10 people when you’re the only one who doesn’t auto run around trees, let’s see how far you get..
i don’t condone it but you also cannot condemn them.
there were 50+ people running around yew last night, probably 1 on an official client, they going to ban them?
“

popps said:

Yoshi said:

“I can show many screenshots of ally members being pulled by gms for trashtalking etc, GMs then happily let them go on their way and don’t mention anything about the client they are using.

but what is kinda funny is when people accuse other people of using this script or that script in PvP, they will share videos and screenshots saying look no cheats and forget that their whole client is not even legal and the whole client is technically a cheat. 

Even when they try and crop an image to post here, it has been so many years since they used an official client that they forget that conflags and houses etc don’t look like that on official client.

Sync scripting even used to be considered cheating where one person controls the targeting and release of spells so you’re almost multiboxing with other people’s spells/attacks and this gets shared to ally members. But now every guild seems to do it, it’s just part of the game.
But this just makes the official client targeting bugs even worse. If you’re playing against an opponent team who can all target someone on your team instantly, but let us say everyone on your team was using official client and they had to scroll through all the invalid neutral animals, dead pets, grey fellow guild members before they target the right orange…

Okay first time team dies irritating, 10’000th time team dies, they get their whole guild to download client and sync script too.
But even without sync scripting the classic client targeting issues make the client uncompetitive. Yes you can still play it, but you will die over and over and over due to the client. Try running away from 10 people when you’re the only one who doesn’t auto run around trees, let’s see how far you get..
i don’t condone it but you also cannot condemn them.
there were 50+ people running around yew last night, probably 1 on an official client, they going to ban them?
“

Sync scripting even used to be considered cheating where one person controls the targeting and release of spells so you’re almost multiboxing with other people’s spells/attacks and this gets shared to ally members. But now every guild seems to do it, it’s just part of the game.

If Sync scripting is so largely used, considering how much powerfull it is in PvP, this means that, for those players who do not Sync Script, there is just not a chance for them to PvP.... right ?

But then, if so, HOW COME that, to my understanding, Sync Scripting is NOT permitted by Ultima Online's TOS ?

Something here looks to not add up.... does it ?

It is not possible to PvP unless one does not Sync Script and, yet, the TOS does not allow a player to Sync Script.

Something here looks dead wrong to me....

Furthermore, you mention the dismounting script as unbalancing.... so much that it got fixed... well, at least to my opinion, the Sync script looks far worse unbalancing as compared to the dismount fix and, yet, I understand, it never got addressed as the dismount one did....

can you try that again with less flannel and comas, get to the point......

“I wouldn’t say sync scripting is worse than the (now fixed) dismount script no. I would say that sync scripting is only advantageous because there is no mobiles bar in CC, if everyone used EC which has a mobiles bar you can all synchronise a spell drop together manually with audio commands over discord, as there are less targeting problems with mobiles bar. Also it’s prob possible to repeat a sync script using EC UI, as the target serial is sent through alliance chat. 

“There is no new things being said here, people have been asking for target bug fixes in official CC for 5+ years”

Mariah said:

From the 'Media' link above select 'Newsletter archive'

In the archive click on any link

At the top of that page click on 'past issues'

which takes you to the page @ Pawain linked above.

1) A newbie clicks newsletter and see 2020, will close the window. Perhaps a psychic will click on 2020 news and then know there is a secret link in Old News too click to Latest news 2022.

2) 4 clicks to read a newsletter?
2 to find 2020 news
2 more to find 2022 page.

3) Why is newsletter classified as "Media"?

Not trying to be rude but a 24 year old online game company should be able to handle better web navigation.

75% of everyone I know on my shard script.  The enforcement is a complete utter joke. if you can't beat'em join'em

meltedmantis said:

75% of everyone I know on my shard script.  The enforcement is a complete utter joke. if you can't beat'em join'em

You must know a lot of players on LS that I don't know. 

Removed

What I find absurd, is that, we had changes to the Fey spawn in Destard when it started because, at least to my understanding, with the initial release scripters were taking advantage of it....

The changes to the spawn, as many layers lamented, eventually led to the unplayability of the Event in the Destard Dungeon for many players and they quit playing there because of the "build up" of Paragons too time consuming or flat out impossible to fight for an insufficient number of players, on some Shards or time of the day....

And now, with the eggs gathering, aren't perhaps scripters not taking even a larger advantage of this Event, taking eggs away from players who play fair and square, that is, not using any illegal Third Party utility who keep recalling from eggs spawning location to eggs spawning location only to find them void og eggs because these scripters are taking them all in a blink of an eye ?

Mind you, I think that providing a non-combat way to players to participate to these Treasures of Events is wonderfull, and I praise the Developers for giving this to us, and I honestly want this to stay also for future Events....

Only, I would want the Developers to Design it in ways that scripters, especially AFK scripters who run their BOTs 24/7, cannot dominate it thus taking it away from players who play by the rules and use their own time at their computer...

That is at least how I see it.

Pawain said:

meltedmantis said:

75% of everyone I know on my shard script.  The enforcement is a complete utter joke. if you can't beat'em join'em

You must know a lot of players on LS that I don't know. 

You been to the LS discord?  it becomes pretty obvious there when people are trading scripts.....
I'll be totally frank, the ONLY reason I'm not running bots -->yet<-- is i'm too busy with my job ... which is writing scripts/code Ironically enough.  But I know people that have gotten 10's of thousands of drops in the first few weeks alone thanks to their bot trains.  At this point, with the way "enforcement" is, why wouldn't people.  It seems like the no-bot policy is more like "no bots- wink wink nudge nudge,  don't forget to buy luck potions!"  

popps said:

What I find absurd, is that, we had changes to the Fey spawn in Destard when it started because, at least to my understanding, with the initial release scripters were taking advantage of it....

The changes to the spawn, as many layers lamented, eventually led to the unplayability of the Event in the Destard Dungeon for many players and they quit playing there because of the "build up" of Paragons too time consuming or flat out impossible to fight for an insufficient number of players, on some Shards or time of the day....

Yep, and by the time they "fixed" the spawn the scripts were about done anyway because they already had tens of thousands.  During the first week on my guild discord we had a member start a first to 1k drops contest.  We had a few non guild people in our discord and one of them goes " well I'm already at 20k"  This was the first week.  Then the devs make the spawn changes but those guys are already done with the thing, so who does the changes hurt?  the regular players who play by the rules.

What's really crappy is that first week before they jacked up the spawn, we were having a ball, it was actually... you know... FUN.  but silly me this is U F'ing O and fun is not allowed, and here we are with the most boring event ever

“There is an amnesty on scripting in the game, but there is not an amnesty on discussing the issue in the forums.

This can make submitting bug reports that are exploited by scripts very difficult.

When they were playing with the dismount script issue, (they made one big change then rolled it back a little because they nerfed it too much) I posted just part of the new dismount script (that adjusted for the changes) in order to discuss the change that had to be made to the script that made it somewhat fairer and I received an official warning for posting it… how can you discuss changes when you can’t discuss anything?
If they are allowing scripts, you should be allowed to discuss it.

i can’t imagine telling a woman or child who was a victim of a crime to not talk about it, part of me feels that is very wrong”

“Perhaps some comments have been removed.. Mariah what relevance is any of that to what anyone has been discussing?”

Mariah said:

Terms of Service (at the bottom of every forum page)

1. Please Treat ALL Posters with Respect and Courtesy

9. No Posting In Breach Of Games’ Terms of Service - You must not post, or link to materials that are, in breach of the games’ Terms of Service. This includes, but is not limited to:

1. Advertisement or promotion of unofficial servers.
2. Information on exploits of bugs in sufficient detail to allow others to perform said exploit.
3. Cash sales of in game items.

Rule 1 includes members of Broadsword staff. Libelous posts will be removed.

LOL So why doesn't @Mesanna and Co. take action against the people who sell game items for cash? If she doesn't know who they are, she is the ONLY person in the UO community who doesn't! She can contact me and I will be more than happy to give her a list of names, and evidence (including but not limited to PM's, ICQ's, links to their "ads"/websites) YET AGAIN so she can take action against them. Why does the word "hypocrite" come to mind????

Hate saying it but why not script ... Throw away EJ accounts and little done to stop it... Do what it takes to win I guess...

vortex said:

Hate saying it but why not script ... Throw away EJ accounts and little done to stop it... Do what it takes to win I guess...

And how good of an approach would that be, that of leaving scripters be, if I may ask ?

The players who find no point in playing a game cheating, would likely abandon that game, and those who were to stay, would mostly be those cheating now finding themselves competing with fellow players also cheating and, consequentially, an escalation in finding better and better cheats would take place with eventually having that game so much plagued by cheats and players cheating, that it would be unrecoverable...

Personally, I am of the idea that for the better sake of a gaming environment for all players playing it, cheating should be severely dealt with.

The Contact Form allows players to submit petitions for assistance for account and billing issues as well as to report feedback, GM/EM reviews, or bugs in Ultima Online. The form features a drop-down menu containing the various categories for which players can submit their queries.

Open the form, click on the section headed 'department', select Bug Report and there you can give all the information you have, including the kind of exploit information that can't be allowed in this publicly viewable forum.

Mariah said:

Please note, while this forum has a bugs section, it is not the only, or even primary, way for reporting bugs.

https://uo.com/support/

The Contact Form allows players to submit petitions for assistance for account and billing issues as well as to report feedback, GM/EM reviews, or bugs in Ultima Online. The form features a drop-down menu containing the various categories for which players can submit their queries.

Yoshi said:

Mariah said:

Please note, while this forum has a bugs section, it is not the only, or even primary, way for reporting bugs.

https://uo.com/support/

The Contact Form allows players to submit petitions for assistance for account and billing issues as well as to report feedback, GM/EM reviews, or bugs in Ultima Online. The form features a drop-down menu containing the various categories for which players can submit their queries.

"I don't recommend this method, because you're unable to see what other people have reported if they have reported a similar issue, you also will not receive any response (other than an automatic email to say the report was received), whereas at least here a player may be able to assist you, also you're unable to keep track of the report that either you or someone else has submitted.

At least here you can see as a public record that a bug/exploit has been reported

EG https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1883/shadowguard-orchard/p2

reported 2018, confirmed by Misk 2020, still bugged/exploitable today June 2022.

if someone had instead used the contact form, there would be no accountability, unless there is a website we can visit to see all the submitted and unactioned reports?

"

Asking for acknowledgement and accountability is apparently frowned upon and asking for communication makes you a trolling bad person..

Again, I'm just trying to get a serious issue to be addressed one way or the other.  Please, either way, start cleaning house and enforce what the agreement states or change it so that scripting is allowed and those scripts be made available to all. Both parties need to uphold their end of the agreement.

Mariah said:

@ Yoshi do both, but keep the exploit information to the bug report, not the forum post. You could mention in the post the fact that a report with more detailed information has been submitted.

I am in no way downing the team as i feel they have way too much on their plate trying to keep UO alive while dealing with far too much naggy bs but...

I've reported 2 straight mechanic abuse bugs in 2017 (fairly neat bug) and again in 2019 (gamebreaking VvV exploit) using the contact form, by DM with step by step screenshots and even in game. 

I just tested and they still work as of today. How many years have to go by before these are considered non bannable features? 

Urge said:

Mariah said:

@ Yoshi do both, but keep the exploit information to the bug report, not the forum post. You could mention in the post the fact that a report with more detailed information has been submitted.

I am in no way downing the team as i feel they have way too much on their plate trying to keep UO alive while dealing with far too much naggy bs but...

I've reported 2 straight mechanic abuse bugs in 2017 (fairly neat bug) and again in 2019 (gamebreaking VvV exploit) using the contact form, by DM with step by step screenshots and even in game. 

I just tested and they still work as of today. How many years have to go by before these are considered non bannable features? 

I find the suggestion that the developers are too busy coding NL  to bother to reply absurd. Does anyone really believe they've been coding the days away for what 2 years since the NL announcement. ? 

I guess the new NLS project is to impress EA boardroom.

"Fixing bugs" is supposed to be the staple, not ground breaking or anything that scores point with the higher up above BS. 

However, fixing say 100 bugs per month should be part of Broadsword KPI Key Performance Indicator. Bugs are the primary concern now.

Again scripts are around because we are still using a 1997 created software. Think of Windows 3.1 or XP, an ancient architecture that is easily hacked in 2022.

If you do online banking in those old Unsupported Windows version, good luck to you.

Looking at UO forum bugs section, does the game look like its supported now? 

Creating new content is not game support! NLS is not game support!

Instead of doing NLS that splits the active playing population from production shard, they should focus on building the final client that is script resistant, and visually acceptable to both old and new players (and marketing).

Seth said:

I guess the new NLS project is to impress EA boardroom.

"Fixing bugs" is supposed to be the staple, not ground breaking or anything that scores point with the higher up above BS. 

However, fixing say 100 bugs per month should be part of Broadsword KPI Key Performance Indicator. Bugs are the primary concern now.

Again scripts are around because we are still using a 1997 created software. Think of Windows 3.1 or XP, an ancient architecture that is easily hacked in 2022.

If you do online banking in those old Unsupported Windows version, good luck to you.

Looking at UO forum bugs section, does the game look like its supported now? 

Creating new content is not game support! NLS is not game support!

Instead of doing NLS that splits the active playing population from production shard, they should focus on building the final client that is script resistant, and visually acceptable to both old and new players (and marketing).

I play every day and not 1 bug bothers my game play.   Maybe that is why they concentrate on other things.

Pawain said:

Seth said:

I guess the new NLS project is to impress EA boardroom.

"Fixing bugs" is supposed to be the staple, not ground breaking or anything that scores point with the higher up above BS. 

However, fixing say 100 bugs per month should be part of Broadsword KPI Key Performance Indicator. Bugs are the primary concern now.

Again scripts are around because we are still using a 1997 created software. Think of Windows 3.1 or XP, an ancient architecture that is easily hacked in 2022.

If you do online banking in those old Unsupported Windows version, good luck to you.

Looking at UO forum bugs section, does the game look like its supported now? 

Creating new content is not game support! NLS is not game support!

Instead of doing NLS that splits the active playing population from production shard, they should focus on building the final client that is script resistant, and visually acceptable to both old and new players (and marketing).

I play every day and not 1 bug bothers my game play.   Maybe that is why they concentrate on other things.

A very selfish attitude....

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

Seth said:

I guess the new NLS project is to impress EA boardroom.

"Fixing bugs" is supposed to be the staple, not ground breaking or anything that scores point with the higher up above BS. 

However, fixing say 100 bugs per month should be part of Broadsword KPI Key Performance Indicator. Bugs are the primary concern now.

Again scripts are around because we are still using a 1997 created software. Think of Windows 3.1 or XP, an ancient architecture that is easily hacked in 2022.

If you do online banking in those old Unsupported Windows version, good luck to you.

Looking at UO forum bugs section, does the game look like its supported now? 

Creating new content is not game support! NLS is not game support!

Instead of doing NLS that splits the active playing population from production shard, they should focus on building the final client that is script resistant, and visually acceptable to both old and new players (and marketing).

I play every day and not 1 bug bothers my game play.   Maybe that is why they concentrate on other things.

A very selfish attitude....

Or using time fixing things that do not affect most players seems selfish.

Name 5 bugs that hinder game play for everyone every day.

Content is a better thing to work on.

Ghost mobs
Spellbook staps 
Pets flagging 
Targeting issues 
I could list many more that affect pvp 

McDougle said:

Ghost mobs
Spellbook staps 
Pets flagging 
Targeting issues 
I could list many more that affect pvp 

Not everyone plays EC, few have the strap.  Does your book disappear?  No you still have it.

They tried to fix targeting, but mobs are dying every day still.

2% of UO pvp.

“Pawain, I’m assuming you don’t come across many bugs standing at Luna with a lantern in hand.
i am killed over 10 times a day due to different official client bugs.
attunement stopping to cast when still on cooldown. 

Yoshi said:

“Pawain, I’m assuming you don’t come across many bugs standing at Luna with a lantern in hand.
i am killed over 10 times a day due to different official client bugs.
attunement stopping to cast when still on cooldown. 

Failing to mount new VvV mount in combat mode
select nearest/next hostile targeting dead pets, neutral animals and allied criminals
Missing debuff for nerve strike so can’t tell if you need to red pot or trapped box
Missing debuff for vicious bite, 
Snap back effect when hitting wall of stone



All of these bugs are exclusive to official client”

None of those things have ever happened to me and many other players.  Good Luck on ur agenda.

The only types of bugs that affect all players would be things like a bug preventing login, houses getting deleted without owner consent/involvement, etc.  Thankfully, those are rare, so the developers can spend cycles on fixing other bugs.

1. The "infinite" skill bugs arguably only negatively affected PVP victims.  Yet it was fixed.
2. The "hole" awesome quantity of spawning only affected players doing the first few days of destard.  Yet that was fixed/changed.
3. The "ghost mobs" issue that continues to affect EC players, an attempt was made to fix it.
4. Pets going wild only affected players that had pet followers.  Yet it was fixed.
5. A myriad of changes have been made to underwater, even though not everybody did underwater.  Fixes still need to be made to that.
6. ...

The "ghost mobs" and targeting/flagging issues affect many players daily, I'm sure.  These manifest at champ spawns in TRAM and FEL regularly.  Also manifest at blackthorn captains events.

Bugs in operating systems that do not affect all users are fixed pretty regularly.

I smell a troll at the very least, else it's just somebody that has no business running a software project speaking in this thread.

“No none have happened to many players, because they’ve migrated to a client that does not suffer those issues…
and I’m probably going to do the same.



I was listing bugs that affect only official client but there are some that affect all.
targets out of range/cannot be seen losing cursor and having to recast spell.
Battle lust does nothing 
Flagging bug with summons - I actually abused that badly yesterday, I visited a vendor in fel in the middle of nowhere, there was someone on a blue beetle who had casted an EV to kill an ogre or something, I attacked his EV and this made him flag on me (bug) so he couldn’t recall or enter house and i killed him and his blue beetle and looted over 1 plat worth of things i presume were being moved somewhere for auction safe. I felt a little bad but I reported the bug ages ago..
some people needs to rage for it to be addressed. Hopefully Pawain it will happen to you soon. It is possible instead to turn blue players red if I purposefully die instead of killing them. I may have to start doing that to make more people complain”

The proof that bugs so matter to players is when they don't spend time playing but rather choose to write futile complaints on the forum because reporting bugs via email does not work. 

What other proof do I need when we have solid black and white written 100s or 1000s of bugs posted. If they do not matter what on earth are we wasting time posting here, are we paid $10 for each post here?

Even GMs get paid. We pay $10 a month to write bugs and complaints in the forum?

Seth said:

The proof that bugs so matter to players is when they don't spend time playing but rather choose to write futile complaints on the forum because reporting bugs via email does not work. 

What other proof do I need when we have solid black and white written 100s or 1000s of bugs posted. If they do not matter what on earth are we wasting time posting here, are we paid $10 for each post here?

Even GMs get paid. We pay $10 a month to write bugs and complaints in the forum?

Don't let him bait you @Seth our complaints are valid despite his refusal to see the reality of things 

“I think that with NL
they should only allow official clients users to log into that shard.
Now hear me out before I am branded an extremist, I know most people haven’t logged in on an official client for a while but NL is supposed to be a new experience and NL is not necessarily there for current players, I’m sure it’s to attract new subscribers. And it’s not a good idea in my opinion to throw these new players in the deep end, and have them competing against sync scripters etc who can literally run rings and them”

Yoshi said:

“I think that with NL
they should only allow official clients users to log into that shard.
Now hear me out before I am branded an extremist, I know most people haven’t logged in on an official client for a while but NL is supposed to be a new experience and NL is not necessarily there for current players, I’m sure it’s to attract new subscribers. And it’s not a good idea in my opinion to throw these new players in the deep end, and have them competing against sync scripters etc who can literally run rings and them”

I really doubt that Broadsword will only let subscribed accounts into New Legacy because that would, at least to my opinion, defy the entire point of having New Legacy exist to attract "new" players to Ultima Online....

If only existing, subscribed players were to be able to get into New Legacy, I do not see how NL could work to attract new players to UO....

I do agree with you that it would be a bad idea to then have these new players be facing sync scripters etc. since likely this could either drive them away from wanting to keep playing the game or have them become also scripters in order to then be able to play in a competitive environment...

And that is why I have been saying for years now, that scripting should be addressed and dealt with on its own, not with changes to the game Design which eventually only affect very marginally scripters who often script unattended, but instead hurt, and a great deal, the gameplay of legit, non-scripting players who actually spend their time at the keyboard...

“Popps you misunderstood my post, 
I was saying they should only allow official client on NL. Didn’t say they should only allow current subscribers, if anything they should not allow current subscribers. That won’t be popular with current subscribers as I imagine only a small percentage use an official client”

I guess that all the CC 3rd party are designed for CC with production shards and may not work with new NLS with different coding. They have also not been updated for a long time.

Yoshi said:

“Popps you misunderstood my post, 
I was saying they should only allow official client on NL. Didn’t say they should only allow current subscribers, if anything they should not allow current subscribers. That won’t be popular with current subscribers as I imagine only a small percentage use an official client”

Ah, OK then, if you meant just the client being used to play UO, regardless whether a player is subscribed or playing Endless Journey, then I agree, it would be beneficial if NL could only be played using the official client.

I dont think the intention of classic client was to allow 3rd party. 

Already said, it is a 1997 era software. 

Maybe they should design a new client  to go with the NLS. 

“The standard scripts that I observe most players use in fel on a daily basis (sorry I don’t have the official names of the scripts as I don’t have that client installed yet):
auto toggle weapon special between spells
Auto seed of life at low hp
auto maintain str/dex potion (when you use purge magic you’ll see this in action)
auto re-arm when disarmed
auto bandage apply
teleport relative up (teleports you to floor above, without this script an official client user often cannot teleport to the same location)
wall of stone target relative - places wall of stone 3 tiles in front of target depending on direction target is facing.
auto trapped box on paralise or nerve strike (this is particularly unfair as official client does not even give a debuff for nerve strike to user so can’t even do it manually) 
Some sort of teleport script that allows people to teleport exactly 8 tiles..
some sort of script that allows stealthers in animal form to run full speed stealthed without stopping and without revealing - so I think the script makes it walk for a split second after exactly every 9 steps or whatever. 

So the official stance is probably based on the 100% time spent:
98% NLS
1.2% seasonal content
0.79999% routine maintenance
0.00001% bug fixes
0% counter scripts or cheats

"Actually I know a friend of a friend who just this week got banned for multiboxing, apparently had $2k worth of items on the account.

Then again, a friend got banned this week(hopefully temp) just for being abusive to another player.."

Yoshi said:

"Actually I know a friend of a friend who just this week got banned for multiboxing, apparently had $2k worth of items on the account.

Then again, a friend got banned this week(hopefully temp) just for being abusive to another player.."

That's interesting information....

Permanent Ban, or a temporary one ?

Also, those $2k worth of items, were they actually in possession of the account that was multiboxing and thus banned or, on a different account but which benefitted from that multiboxing ?

The reason for the question is, that usually, players do not hold the core of their "goodies" and worth of items on those accounts which they use to do things in the game which could ban them if caught.... they usually use throw away, disposable accounts which they could not care less if they get caught and banned...

So, "if" that account having the goodies that was banned was actually "associated" to the one account actually caught doing the multiboxing and "also " banned, that could be good news as a deterrant against cheating in Ultima Online because players no longer would only fear those disposable, throw away accounts (often EJ ones) which they do not care much about, but, also, their good, "main" accounts which they usually do not risk doing illegal things with in the game but which, ultimately, benefit from that cheatingon other, disposable, throw away accounts...

"It's my understanding that 4 EJ accounts got banned, and the EJ accounts were associated with the paid account which held the possessions, i'm assuming they were caught out this month by the new rules where all the associated accounts get banned (I was surprised they didn't do this from day 1). But i'm only hearing this third hand. I hear it was permanent. 

As for this being a deterrent, most people do not associate their EJ accounts that are engaged in rule breaking, with their paid accounts." 

Yoshi said:

“The standard scripts that I observe most players use in fel on a daily basis (sorry I don’t have the official names of the scripts as I don’t have that client installed yet):
auto toggle weapon special between spells
Auto seed of life at low hp
auto maintain str/dex potion (when you use purge magic you’ll see this in action)
auto re-arm when disarmed
auto bandage apply
teleport relative up (teleports you to floor above, without this script an official client user often cannot teleport to the same location)
wall of stone target relative - places wall of stone 3 tiles in front of target depending on direction target is facing.
auto trapped box on paralise or nerve strike (this is particularly unfair as official client does not even give a debuff for nerve strike to user so can’t even do it manually) 
Some sort of teleport script that allows people to teleport exactly 8 tiles..
some sort of script that allows stealthers in animal form to run full speed stealthed without stopping and without revealing - so I think the script makes it walk for a split second after exactly every 9 steps or whatever. 

Auto shurikan enemy mount 
auto run around objects (same as EC)

and as part of sync script, auto attack disarmed target (one member disarms - upon successful disarm auto sends a signal to all other users to auto attack that target) I actually think this last one should be construed as multi boxing

Good running list there and perfect example of why I stopped actively PvPing. When people use the auto potion / trapped box it's pretty obvious when they don't have resist because they are running through para and para field like it's nothing (while still flagging you) and aren't poisoned for more than a fraction of a second ever (I've had guys go through 30 pots by just poisoning them repeatedly). If they are using these scripts, they really don't even need any resist because poison/para are totally negated and throw an auto apple on top and even curse won't be applied for long. These guys are almost impossible for me to kill. 

I've also noticed something that looks like a script (maybe it's not but who knows) the few days when Destard was open in Fel on ATL where a person was dismounted but started spamming "all follow me" as they were running around healing/teleporting/curing their mount and was able to keep their mount alive (mainly because it followed them the whole time) and run off. Meanwhile, I get dismounted and can't even pull my mounts health bar before it's poisoned and AI spammed to death.

What I have learnt from this is that the Dev team do not play this game, or log in, if they did they would discover in a nanosecond that people are scripting the eggs.

I also think they do not read the boards, or most certainly Mesanna no longer does. There is no way in hell she is unaware of this egg script outrage, but the lack of action against EJ accts in just shocking. By not allowing EJ access to game contact tiles events would stop 90% of the egg scripting we are exposed to on a daily basis, and anyone stupid enough to run the script with their master acct deserves what they get

Even now Mesanna has not explained why she will NOT restrict EJ accts.

So I guess they just do their work on NL that no-one cares for and go home/log off without even checking quality control. Oh wait, that stoned fella on the live feed should do this shouldn't he?

Anyone know what he actually does?  he seems to be missing a blatant run of cheating! Quality assurance?

Read a lot but not all of the posts here.  No special shield so don’t play on Atlantic at all and to be honest have no desire to play there.  Bots are a pain but with a rune set for Britain’s farms and a few others can compete with them now.  Point is if they have been tolerated since 1997 that is good evidence that developers can’t can’t effectively deal with them and if they could maybe they would lose 25% of the player base since I think most people playing this game have been playing it for a long time.

Did read that switching everyone to the EC would solve the problem but that potential solution crashed and burned when attempted or at least seriously discussed.

Problem, as I see it, is that eggs are too easy too pick up.  Bots recall in, pickup the egg and recall out.  Maybe if picking up the egg involved something like answering a question or keying something in to prove the player is a human would resolve this or at least slow them down. That would slow things down playwise but most bots I see, although not all, are fairly stupid.  Some can’t see eggs inside or outside of houses.  Answering a question or having choose to do a second task easy for a human might help to solve this as far as the eggs go.  Anyway, just a thought.  Can’t play tonight so doing this instead.

keven2002 said:
Good running list there and perfect example of why I stopped actively PvPing. When people use the auto potion / trapped box it's pretty obvious when they don't have resist because they are running through para and para field like it's nothing (while still flagging you) and aren't poisoned for more than a fraction of a second ever (I've had guys go through 30 pots by just poisoning them repeatedly). If they are using these scripts, they really don't even need any resist because poison/para are totally negated and throw an auto apple on top and even curse won't be applied for long. These guys are almost impossible for me to kill. 

I've also noticed something that looks like a script (maybe it's not but who knows) the few days when Destard was open in Fel on ATL where a person was dismounted but started spamming "all follow me" as they were running around healing/teleporting/curing their mount and was able to keep their mount alive (mainly because it followed them the whole time) and run off. Meanwhile, I get dismounted and can't even pull my mounts health bar before it's poisoned and AI spammed to death.

"Having auto drink cure and auto trapped box does not negate requirement for resisting spells at all, there are more than 2 spells that are affected by resist. And the fact they actually get poisoned or paralized albeit for a split second is still enough. Once you mana vamp someone, they are out of the fight. 


okay some clients will auto display your mount's healthbar, 
but almost all actions you can actually make a macro for on official classic client. Obviously it's not possible in most situations to manually pull your own mount's healthbar when you're surrounded by enemies so.
I have a macro to pull my own mount's healthbar:
select nearest: follower

I also have a macro to pop a new VvV horse and mount:
uoassist, use object type + menu selection
then use uo macro: say all follow me
select nearest follower, use selected target  
(this is perhaps a bad example because there is a bug on official classic client where if you're in combat mode it won't work, but i'm sure it will be fixed soon)

1vs1 scripts do very little, nobody is impossible to kill, if they are their template is so defensive that they will be unable to kill you either."

Arnold7 said:

Read a lot but not all of the posts here.  No special shield so don’t play on Atlantic at all and to be honest have no desire to play there.  Bots are a pain but with a rune set for Britain’s farms and a few others can compete with them now.  Point is if they have been tolerated since 1997 that is good evidence that developers can’t can’t effectively deal with them and if they could maybe they would lose 25% of the player base since I think most people playing this game have been playing it for a long time.

Did read that switching everyone to the EC would solve the problem but that potential solution crashed and burned when attempted or at least seriously discussed.

Problem, as I see it, is that eggs are too easy too pick up.  Bots recall in, pickup the egg and recall out.  Maybe if picking up the egg involved something like answering a question or keying something in to prove the player is a human would resolve this or at least slow them down. That would slow things down playwise but most bots I see, although not all, are fairly stupid.  Some can’t see eggs inside or outside of houses.  Answering a question or having choose to do a second task easy for a human might help to solve this as far as the eggs go.  Anyway, just a thought.  Can’t play tonight so doing this instead.

Yup, it is a 1997-era issue. We can't blame all the hacks developed during the hay days of Ultima Online. By the time EC was introduced the population was probably in decline. There are more attractive games out there.

However, I still disagree to use Captcha to test real players.

Yeah, it blocks bots so those players can simply... move on and don't play. But the active players are the idiots who has to answer Captcha codes.

"Twitch apparently bans streamers who are caught using cheats. And have a 0 tolerance. 

I would be interested to know how this works with UO.


I just had a quick browse, people stream on official servers using unofficial client...

 "

Yoshi said:

"Twitch apparently bans streamers who are caught using cheats. And have a 0 tolerance. 

I would be interested to know how this works with UO.


I just had a quick browse, people stream on official servers using unofficial client...

 "

I just had a quick browse, people stream on official servers using unofficial client...

Please correct me if I am wrong in my thinking.... would that perhaps mean, that by simply looking at Videos of Ultima Online the Developers could easily identify players using "unofficial" clients which were to be against the TOS and take whatever appropriate action would be needed against those accounts ?

Out of curiosity, how long did it take you for that "quick" browse ?

Would it be a time reasonably short enough for a Developer or Game Master who would want to identify players using "unofficial" clients in violation of the TOS ?

"well popps, if you go on youtube and search for uo pvp atlantic (or any shard) and sort by this month, let me know if you find a single person using official client..


But at the end of the day, they are paying customers, they are paying for something that should be free of defects..
who is really in violation of ToS? i would say that broadsword QA are violating some sort of consumer ToSs if the customer feels forced to download fixes from a third party source, as the product they are paying for doesn't work.

select next hostile: magpie.......

don't we as consumers have any rights at all when we prepay a 6 month subscription??
maybe not"

Yoshi said:

"well popps, if you go on youtube and search for uo pvp atlantic (or any shard) and sort by this month, let me know if you find a single person using official client..


But at the end of the day, they are paying customers, they are paying for something that should be free of defects..
who is really in violation of ToS? i would say that broadsword QA are violating some sort of consumer ToSs if the customer feels forced to download fixes from a third party source, as the product they are paying for doesn't work.

select next hostile: magpie.......

don't we as consumers have any rights at all when we prepay a 6 month subscription??
maybe not"

No
You are "entitled" not to use the offered services no more no less.

PS the customer is rarely right.

It should be easier than NLS, to make a EC version 2.0 with switchable graphics.

I believe they can block access based on client type. E.g. If we don't patch client they blocked our login. They can tell us alot of users are still using CC which is why its not sunseted but yet upgraded. So why not blocked CC after fixing EC 2.0 that can switch between new and old graphics and then force CC sunset.

I still think the 3rd party are hooked up to official clients to login. It's unlikely a completely standalone client remade with its own graphics file, etc.

All the speculation is useless when the developers have chosen ostrich style......

“If they have dropped support for official clients (which by the 4+ year old bug list it appears like they have) and are encouraging us to source our own by turning a blind eye, the least they can do is provide a safe download link. 

Yoshi said:

I don't think twitch is gonna care and even if they did it only removes them from twitch the end result is nothing...

Yoshi said:

“If they have dropped support for official clients (which by the 4+ year old bug list it appears like they have) and are encouraging us to source our own by turning a blind eye, the least they can do is provide a safe download link. 

I will maybe create an account on twitch and report all the UO players as cheating and see if they all get banned. If twitch with its 0 tolerance on cheating doesn’t say it’s cheating then maybe they have more info than us”

You got a lot of time on your hands don't you bud?

Oreogl said:

Yoshi said:

“If they have dropped support for official clients (which by the 4+ year old bug list it appears like they have) and are encouraging us to source our own by turning a blind eye, the least they can do is provide a safe download link. 

I will maybe create an account on twitch and report all the UO players as cheating and see if they all get banned. If twitch with its 0 tolerance on cheating doesn’t say it’s cheating then maybe they have more info than us”

You got a lot of time on your hands don't you bud?

He's busy waiting for stat loss to wear off 

“Some gaming industry affiliates such as Twitch or other streaming services take the view that cheating actually has a negative impact on gaming as an industry (even though Broadsword may not take that view) and will take steps to discourage if.

If such a third party wants/needs to view a list of approved programs for Ultima online, where do they find this list?

Giving them a link to a random forum moderator’s comment advising “to my knowledge x is approved” is not going to be sufficient.
How can one streamer prove that UOAssist and any mapping program is allowed? and O***n or R***r is not? 

Yoshi said:

“Some gaming industry affiliates such as Twitch or other streaming services take the view that cheating actually has a negative impact on gaming as an industry (even though Broadsword may not take that view) and will take steps to discourage if.

If such a third party wants/needs to view a list of approved programs for Ultima online, where do they find this list?

Giving them a link to a random forum moderator’s comment advising “to my knowledge x is approved” is not going to be sufficient.
How can one streamer prove that UOAssist and any mapping program is allowed? and O***n or R***r is not? 

To that note, a forum moderator may edit out a name in this comment, again the same question, where can we find a list of names of programs we are allowed to name (other than that which is the personal opinion of the forum moderator and it shall remain personal opinion until the list is displayed on the website or under Ts and Cs)”

Personally, I fail to understand how anyone could not see cheating as fundamentally detrimental and hurting to games and to the Games Industry....

I mean, "who" would want to play the same game together with fellow players who cheat ?

I have a hard time understanding how a Game Developer, a Game Publisher or someone who work in the Games Industry could not see eradicating cheating from Games as a # 1 Priority....

“The issue here is, there are no clear rules on what is cheating and what is not cheating.
in shooter games, auto aim programs are considered cheating - so the program targets for you.
In uo if the player is automatically targeted for you (from a third party player sending the target to all players in the alliance) that could be construed as auto aim or even multi boxing no?

also in shooters, wall hacks are not allowed (a program that allows people to see other players who are behind walls. And in uo in unofficial client you can see behind walls that official clients can’t see (and you can target the player/ground if in line of site too) so this could be construed as a wall hack.

Also if unofficial client allows you to run and cast spells slightly faster, albeit just due to being able to run the game at a higher FramePerSecond, this could maybe be considered a speed hack?

There are no clear rules on what is allowed and what is not allowed especially since in EC you can also do so many automatic actions”

I think it is clear what is cheating. It is also clear why they can't remove them 100%. The answers are in 5 pages of forum thread for those topic.

Yoshi said:

Please restrict the cheats to players <5 year account"

Please tell us old wise one tell us how this can be done

@Seth
Thanks 4 linking my thread of +4yrs ago. Interesting to see just how much progress has been made. 😂

Said at the time its was my ‘biggest curiosity’ for UO. I’ve given up on it as they have also, apparently. Its why I haven’t logged in to play in years.  🙁

In b4 the lock...

“For example 
If you have entered yourself into the Atlantic mage pvp tournament 
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10851/atlantic-pvp-mage-tournament#latest

should pvp start naked and the participants run into the arena to pickup items to equip in order to kill the other. 

Think
#hungergames 

Acid_Rain said:

@ Seth
Thanks 4 linking my thread of +4yrs ago. Interesting to see just how much progress has been made. 😂

Said at the time its was my ‘biggest curiosity’ for UO. I’ve given up on it as they have also, apparently. Its why I haven’t logged in to play in years.  🙁

In b4 the lock...

If they are as quick to debug as to lock a thread, the game would have a better future.

I can understand the house placement cheating and drops cheating as there is RMT involved but pvp cheating just so you can smack talk merv/yoshi...

No answer is often an answer, not just in every day life, but in corporate operations. In the end, shareholders expect EA and its holdings to turn a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. In my own company, there are matters that are simply not shared with me, even though I might be the face of marketing operations between government and many major international corporations. I have learned over the years that is simply the way it is. Though we want to say it is only a game, in Bonnie's office I suspect that there is a firm foot planted in the reality of corporate operations and expectations.

What is the the official word on scripting?  I have found in my own real work life, that  it is conditional. Those conditions are obviously known only within the offices of UO. As long as the game meets the goals of the parent organization and its shareholders there is not going to be an answer given to most of us that interact with the game.

For example, I returned to the game at the end of 2018 after 6 years away. Since I now live and work in Asia, I moved my characters to a shard here from Atlantic. I had time, and needed some distraction. I took out my lumberjack and started logging. I ran back and forth between Vesper Museum to build up points. I was at work no more than an hour doing this that a GM popped in on me. After quickly responding to his query he was gone. Another day I took out my warrior and decided I would update his skills. I went to Painted Caves and started chopping away at Trogs to build tactics. Again, a GM pops in on me, asks me a quick question, and no sooner had I answered he was gone. A few days later, my tamer had the same experience while plodding away building skills with the Advanced Training system that was then new to me. All told, over a two week period I had more encounters with GM's than at any time playing the game from 2001 to 2012. Meanwhile, everywhere I visited, were it not for scripters, my experience on this shard would be pretty lonely. They were everywhere, and still are.

I discovered Discord sometime after returning. When doing so I saw many scripts posted. I even thought of trying one out for myself. Not because I needed to, but it was new and I wanted to push the envelope. I never did, however, realizing that my simple game play on this slightly populated shard was good enough. I can never do champ spawns, no matter how many tutorials I watch, because my play is always alone, and I do not have that finesse required to solo them. I know people are out there, though, because I make stuff with crafters, and they sell.

Having shared this, I suspect it is a balancing act in Bonnie's office. There are indeed many scripters, but has it harmed the game? Do people continue to play who do not script? Would people not play should there be a more aggressive stance toward finding the scripters that are major factors in the economics of the game? I suspect that, as in my office, there are matters that will not be shared with me because it is understood that all is currently in balance so long as I continue to play the game. Some scripters will be sought out. Some will not. In the meantime, no answer will be given when questions are posed in regards to the numerous exceptions noticed to the rule. It is understood that most will in time just carry on and no longer pay any mind.

I 

Ben said:

No answer is often an answer, not just in every day life, but in corporate operations. In the end, shareholders expect EA and its holdings to turn a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. In my own company, there are matters that are simply not shared with me, even though I might be the face of marketing operations between government and many major international corporations. I have learned over the years that is simply the way it is. Though we want to say it is only a game, in Bonnie's office I suspect that there is a firm foot planted in the reality of corporate operations and expectations.

What is the the official word on scripting?  I have found in my own real work life, that  it is conditional. Those conditions are obviously known only within the offices of UO. As long as the game meets the goals of the parent organization and its shareholders there is not going to be an answer given to most of us that interact with the game.

For example, I returned to the game at the end of 2018 after 6 years away. Since I now live and work in Asia, I moved my characters to a shard here from Atlantic. I had time, and needed some distraction. I took out my lumberjack and started logging. I ran back and forth between Vesper Museum to build up points. I was at work no more than an hour doing this that a GM popped in on me. After quickly responding to his query he was gone. Another day I took out my warrior and decided I would update his skills. I went to Painted Caves and started chopping away at Trogs to build tactics. Again, a GM pops in on me, asks me a quick question, and no sooner had I answered he was gone. A few days later, my tamer had the same experience while plodding away building skills with the Advanced Training system that was then new to me. All told, over a two week period I had more encounters with GM's than at any time playing the game from 2001 to 2012. Meanwhile, everywhere I visited, were it not for scripters, my experience on this shard would be pretty lonely. They were everywhere, and still are.

I discovered Discord sometime after returning. When doing so I saw many scripts posted. I even thought of trying one out for myself. Not because I needed to, but it was new and I wanted to push the envelope. I never did, however, realizing that my simple game play on this slightly populated shard was good enough. I can never do champ spawns, no matter how many tutorials I watch, because my play is always alone, and I do not have that finesse required to solo them. I know people are out there, though, because I make stuff with crafters, and they sell.

Having shared this, I suspect it is a balancing act in Bonnie's office. There are indeed many scripters, but has it harmed the game? Do people continue to play who do not script? Would people not play should there be a more aggressive stance toward finding the scripters that are major factors in the economics of the game? I suspect that, as in my office, there are matters that will not be shared with me because it is understood that all is currently in balance so long as I continue to play the game. Some scripters will be sought out. Some will not. In the meantime, no answer will be given when questions are posed in regards to the numerous exceptions noticed to the rule. It is understood that most will in time just carry on and no longer pay any mind.

I 

So at least 3 players are now convinced that you are a bot and the devs did nothing to stop you.  😂

Ben said:

There are indeed many scripters, but has it harmed the game?

I think that the core of the issue lays in that question.

To which, my answer is yes, scripting and cheating in general does harm the game.

Why do I think so ?

Because, the in-game time of scripters, particularly AFK scripters, but also multi-boxing scripters, has a way much lower value as compared to the time of players who actually invest their time in the game to get items.

Therefore, scripters can price their scripted items at a much lower value as non-scripting players thus, driving them out of business in the game since whatever items they were to get can be priced at a much lower value as what non-scripting players could price them if valueing their in game spent time to get them.

And this, eventually means taking away gameplay content from non-scripting players who "might" want to enjoy that given content but, simply, cannot compete with scripting players who use little or even none of their time in the game to get those same items.

Eventually, losing content after content because of scripters, a good deal of non-scripting players could find no longer reasons to log into the game which would then loose players base.

So, yes, to my opinion, scripting does hurt the game and that is why I think it should be fought by the developers.

I am not sure scripters affect the price of items that much on my shard.  I watch prices very closely and for routine drops the price usually does not vary all that much over the duration of an event on my shard.  But scripters do make a lot more gold since they have many more items to sell, and they can make more armor suits.  On my shard a player, don’t know how he got them, set up a shop selling hundreds of drops and lots of glorious potions right next to the dungeon entrance.  Pretty sure it was quite well stocked the day the dungeon opened.

For.Destard on my shard ingots started at 2.5 million, dropped quickly to 2 and settled at 1.5 for the balance of the event.  As for the rewards, there are not enough vendors selling them for the market to set the price, although it did come close to doing that in some instances while the event was running.

That pretty much describes the situation with the bots.  Upon recalling in, they identify the egg, run directly towards it, grab it and recall out before a human recalling in can move the mouse in the direction of the egg.  Some are slower and if they recall outside a house can not see an egg in a house, and some are slower than a human.  Guess it depends on the program the user uses.  But the fast ones you can only beat if you already have the egg in your possession before the recall in.

Scripts (especially repeatable rail type scripts) give a definite advantage in the grand scheme of things because computer/machine automation doesn't slow down due to human elements. Prime example is a beverage company. They are all automated because once the program is fine tuned, the machines will fill bottles faster, more consistent, and without fatigue because all human error is being eliminated. 

Sure there might be a few times (or even X minutes) that a human will outperform due to an unforeseen event on the machines part but if we are talking over the long haul, the computer/machine is going to outperform. It will be able to run 23/7 for as long as it's started maneuvering without wasted steps compared to humans. 

This is why I love Fel in these cases because imo this is where a human player can have more impact on the script; throwing at it things that might not have been thought of by the programmer. People like Yoshi have proven to do very well at finding "chinks in the armor" of a script when allowed to directly interact with a bot.

Macros are scripts. I don’t see anyone rearming by pulling an axe from their pack to their hand? What your talking about is long scripting actions that are enabled by using 3rd party clients. My issue with broadsword is that they are inconsistent in their approach to enforcing a TOS you can be issued a warning or suspension for repeatedly casting curse on yourself at a bank if some bizzybody reports the character but if your ‘watching’ the script run then it’s fine? Neither is playing the game. Then their enforcement method is inconsistent they are meant to speak to you in game then take you to jail and speak to you yet they don’t even follow this process. I reported myself multiple times to see their response and it was completely inconsistent. Then multiboxing is something they completely do not understand. Multiboxing is using one keyboard and mouse to control multiple clients. They think that scripted bots are multi boxed .. that’s a complete nonsense. Their stock emails that come from the disputes email address are also dire. They simply will not reduce the revenue from the player base this is proven by the fact they instantly ban EJ accounts but don’t even warn attended subbed accounts doing the exact same thing. If your worried about ‘scripters’ your worried about the wrong thing. It’s the developers / admins that need to communicate policy and enforce it. 

“If you want to imbue night sight on a piece of equipment it will cost you 100 intensity and 1 property. If you don’t have night sight you may have to carry night sight potions. 

Yoshi said:

“If you want to imbue night sight on a piece of equipment it will cost you 100 intensity and 1 property. If you don’t have night sight you may have to carry night sight potions. 

Yet more than one third party app lets you not require night sight.

If it’s no longer illegal to use third party clients which is evident by the fact that so many are without being banned. Please can broadsword provide a safe download link”

See if ever the developers should step up and COMMUNICATE  it's post like this ..

And to do his part yoshi should report all 92 of his guild mates running illegal programs and scripting 

“As far as I’m aware, the main unofficial client is open source.
why don’t the developers just adopt this and delete all the inbuilt scripts (cheats) it comes with as standard.

Then they could actually get rid of the classic client and enhanced client. And half of the bugs would be fixed as already fixed in that client.
I’m not sure what percentage of players still use an official client but they are out there, I’d say as high as 30%. As I’m sure there are lots of trammel players that play official clients and don’t even come across many problems.

EC users should be happy to migrate as you still get mobiles bar, auto run around objects, grid backpack, adjustable game window.

CC users should be happy to migrate as very similar graphics/UI (it is classic client base)

Then everyone is moving/casting at same speed and you don’t have to pay all those staff you hire to maintain two clients. And nobody needs to DL any other 3rd party macro system or user interface”

Yoshi said:

“As far as I’m aware, the main unofficial client is open source.
why don’t the developers just adopt this and delete all the inbuilt scripts (cheats) it comes with as standard.

Then they could actually get rid of the classic client and enhanced client. And half of the bugs would be fixed as already fixed in that client.

EC users should be happy to migrate as you still get mobiles bar, auto run around objects, grid backpack.

CC users should be happy to migrate as very similar graphics/UI

Then everyone is moving/casting at same speed and you don’t have to pay all those staff you hire to maintain two clients. And nobody needs to DL any other 3rd party macro system or user interface”

As I've said before if you are here asking developers for help you gotta do your part and report..

“Report what?
I just moved guilds from one that had 95% who were using O***n to now I’m only one on official classic client and one guy is on EC, and I know other guilds that are 100% o***n.

There is nothing to report

i only posted about night sight because, I posted a video of a raid and one guy had never seen that spell in use before and asked about it, because they don’t have darkness anywhere.

but I am sure there are trammel guilds with much higher percentage of official client users

nowhere on uo/broadsword/ea .com does it say I am allowed to use UOAssist so I am as much cheating as anyone else

I should not even be allowed to mention UOAssist here on this forum as it’s not written anywhere it’s permitted”

Yoshi said:

“Report what?
I just moved guilds from one that had 95% who were using O***n to now I’m only one on official classic client and one guy is on EC, and I know other guilds that are 100% o***n.

There is nothing to report

i only posted about night sight because, I posted a video of a raid and one guy had never seen that spell in use before and asked about it, because they don’t have darkness anywhere.

but I am sure there are trammel guilds with much higher percentage of official client users

nowhere on uo/broadsword/ea .com does it say I am allowed to use UOAssist so I am as much cheating as anyone else

I should not even be allowed to mention UOAssist here on this forum as it’s not written anywhere it’s permitted”

So you're assuming people are using illegal programs 

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1403/revisited-3rd-party-programs-list


Funny they wouldn't answer then and they won't now ironically players asking for communication back then as well 

To clarify in things big difference between 3rd party programs and scripting 

You can run a endless script as long as you are there 

Come to think of it, scripts are approved since the official EC has a built-in ability. They have answered this,

“Okay so they cannot afford to ban anyone for using cheats. 

Yoshi said:

or simply just put a (cheat) after someone’s name. “

 😂 

I would instantly want that cheat title. The reason they can’t use the open source client is they are simply contractors and in their contract with EA they are paid to update the two clients that EA supports. 3rd party clients are used because they are modern rewrites that include fixes and fps updates, something broadsword will tell you they do they don’t have the resources to achieve even in the face of enthusiasts who wrote these emulations in their spare time doing it for free. Old people don’t like change and hark back to the good old days. 48k modems and a team of 100 trying to stop exploits was UOs good old days now it’s an aging game in a maintainence mode.  

bulldoglegion said:

I would instantly want that cheat title.

Ha-haaaa! Me, too.

Yoshi said:

“Okay so they cannot afford to ban anyone for using cheats.

Yoshi said:

"When people are uploading videos on youtube of themselves playing with cheats on real servers without even blacking out their own paperdoll name.

Something has gone wrong"

Page on them 

gay said:

I think it's funny that there are people in this very thread who I know very much certainly utilize fairly sophisticated means to automate unattended farming, some from server up to server down. But are speaking against and vilifying the broad idea of scripting, aka the simple idea of their competition.

I look at things a little differently. 

The eggs were limited both in locations and time available. The use of bots straight up hindered others gameplay. Pressing play with the intent of denying another player of a limited reward is a real Richard move and completely different than Joe training magery at the bank or insert name farming trogs for gold or all the little woodchucks and miners recalling around. 

All past rewards should be sold on the black market remove the cap and let us pirate with purpose 

Urge said:

gay said:

I think it's funny that there are people in this very thread who I know very much certainly utilize fairly sophisticated means to automate unattended farming, some from server up to server down. But are speaking against and vilifying the broad idea of scripting, aka the simple idea of their competition.

I look at things a little differently. 

The eggs were limited both in locations and time available. The use of bots straight up hindered others gameplay. Pressing play with the intent of denying another player of a limited reward is a real Richard move and completely different than Joe training magery at the bank or insert name farming trogs for gold or all the little woodchucks and miners recalling around. 

gay said:

Did you know that those eggs didn't respawn if they didn't leave the subserver that they spawned on? In other words, if someone has a house on the same server that eggs spawn on, they could pick them up, put them directly into a container in their house, and those eggs would never spawn again until they took them and crossed a serverline or recalled to another subserver.

Did you know, that while so many people on the busiest of servers kept crying "stupid scripters i haven't seen any eggs in hours" what was actually happening was that they were being picked up, and the character was just parked in a busy area so it wouldn't be logged out, all to prevent people from farming eggs.

What? I would pick up eggs near Luna and would basically run in a circle collecting them over and over again without crossing a server line. The eggs respawned continuously. 

dvvid said:

gay said:

Did you know that those eggs didn't respawn if they didn't leave the subserver that they spawned on? In other words, if someone has a house on the same server that eggs spawn on, they could pick them up, put them directly into a container in their house, and those eggs would never spawn again until they took them and crossed a serverline or recalled to another subserver.

Did you know, that while so many people on the busiest of servers kept crying "stupid scripters i haven't seen any eggs in hours" what was actually happening was that they were being picked up, and the character was just parked in a busy area so it wouldn't be logged out, all to prevent people from farming eggs.

What? I would pick up eggs near Luna and would basically run in a circle collecting them over and over again without crossing a server line. The eggs respawned continuously. 

The server line respawn wasn't true for Jhelom. In the few hours I did do this, i constantly stole from vaccum bots while picking eggs from inside the rancher. They repawned. The farms also respawned while standing there. 

"this is completely off topic but the eggs absolutely did respawn if you stayed on the server with the egg, at least at all farms in fel"

They did in Trammel and Malas too.  Maybe not in the same exact spot each time.  If you just waited around, you could collect eggs from the same location or just come back to it over and over.  Respawn time might have varied. 

Yoshi said:

“Okay so they cannot afford to ban anyone for using cheats. 

But there are other actions:

how about re-introducing a permanent stat loss? A loss of 1% on all skills upon death for those using scripts

Or only allow entry into certain dungeons to those using official clients.

or simply just put a (cheat) after someone’s name so they lose credibility“

It depends on how u define cheat vs the design intent.

The design intent has allowed macros since day 1 which is a simplified script to automate arm, disarm, dress up, and a series of actions. Since day 1.

The 3rd party scripts can much more automation.

So automation is not a cheat, but the type of automation, what it can do and only if it's un-monitored aka AFK.

So back to OP, scripts are ok but certain automation is still banned e.g. multi boxing.

Seth said:

Yoshi said:

“Okay so they cannot afford to ban anyone for using cheats. 

But there are other actions:

how about re-introducing a permanent stat loss? A loss of 1% on all skills upon death for those using scripts

Or only allow entry into certain dungeons to those using official clients.

or simply just put a (cheat) after someone’s name so they lose credibility“

It depends on how u define cheat vs the design intent.

The design intent has allowed macros since day 1 which is a simplified script to automate arm, disarm, dress up, and a series of actions. Since day 1.

The 3rd party scripts can much more automation.

So automation is not a cheat, but the type of automation, what it can do and only if it's un-monitored aka AFK.

So back to OP, scripts are ok but certain automation is still banned e.g. multi boxing.

@EpicLuteGaming this, the steadfast unwillingness of the developers to reply to questions like this address this first 

I don’t have a problem with macros but when the macro gets to the point that it plays the game for you while you just monitor the screen without any interaction at all that is going to far.

Arnold7 said:

I don’t have a problem with macros but when the macro gets to the point that it plays the game for you while you just monitor the screen without any interaction at all that is going to far.

THIS  I really wish UO would allow some of the 3rd party programs as old age really starts to take it toll even doing the everyday things starts to hurt.

McDougle said:

Seth said:

Yoshi said:

“Okay so they cannot afford to ban anyone for using cheats. 

But there are other actions:

how about re-introducing a permanent stat loss? A loss of 1% on all skills upon death for those using scripts

Or only allow entry into certain dungeons to those using official clients.

or simply just put a (cheat) after someone’s name so they lose credibility“

It depends on how u define cheat vs the design intent.

The design intent has allowed macros since day 1 which is a simplified script to automate arm, disarm, dress up, and a series of actions. Since day 1.

The 3rd party scripts can much more automation.

So automation is not a cheat, but the type of automation, what it can do and only if it's un-monitored aka AFK.

So back to OP, scripts are ok but certain automation is still banned e.g. multi boxing.

@ EpicLuteGaming this, the steadfast unwillingness of the developers to reply to questions like this address this first 

I myself have been in a struggle with this. I really want to use some of the programs I see others running, but I am 100% afraid to risk my accounts so I do not. I would also love to work out a clear line of what is good and bad for us players. Thanks for tagging me, also noted. 

“ @Seth I am going to prove that certain scripts are not supposed to be in use.

Yoshi said:

"i can tell within 10 seconds in real time if someone is not using an official client,

i am sure broadsword have access to more information than me, a player"

“Okay it is all just pure skill, no extra speed on unofficial client, so let me ask you, why are you using unofficial client? 

Yoshi said:

“Okay it is all just pure skill, no extra speed on unofficial client, so let me ask you, why are you using unofficial client? 

you just prefer the graphics okay…

I guess everyone who is using it is purely using the client for aesthetic reasons and not for the increased movement and spellcasting speed okay.

and when someone gets paralysed for a millisecond by accident between spells from reactive para, and their trapped box goes off for no reason, it must be pure coincidence that they accidentally hit their trapped box button at the same time. 

Life is full of happy little coincidences

generally the cheats don’t bother me, auto cure, auto trapped box, auto bandage, auto re-arm, I don’t really care it’s not a big deal but the increased movement/casting speed is just OP. If someone on unofficial client is redlined and you try and chase on official classic client to hit with a weap, will never make contact. But the other way around and people can armor ignore, death strike etc. 

they removed the ability for splinter to proc on disarm because it was overpowered, but if you’re on unofficial client you can just disarm someone and catch up to them anyway so makes no difference”

Yoshi said:

"amazing skills, 2 people or more log in ***, catch up to person and hit with any weapon special, rinse and repeat. don't even need to splinter or sleep the target.

Moving shot not required.

This is on live shard right now, total joke game

people even video themselves doing it and upload on youtube"

Can you show us where you paged on them ?? Or when you report the members of your own guild?? You refuse to do your part then come looking for sympathy time to step it up and report 

I can say for myself I have seen a few streamers and youtubers using clients other than the official and while it looks good and smooth I can see how it may come with added benefits of use. This would be a tricky subject to work out but clearly, it needs done. 

What I do not understand, is that, to my understanding, 

https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-online-services-launches-two-new-free-services

On top of that, Epic Online Services is offering the industry-leading anti-cheat solution to all developers for free. Easy Anti-Cheat is a powerful feature necessary for the smooth running of any online game with players on PC. These services empower developers to launch, operate, and scale great games like never before. 

Apparently I seem to gather that, from the Link above, "Epic Online Services is offering the industry-leading anti-cheat solution to all developers for free. "

Would it solve all of the cheating issues for UO ? I have no idea.... 

Are there better options to stop cheating in UO ? Possibly, I do not know.... but at least, I would like to see something being done to stop all the scripting, the cheating, the use of unapproved Third Party applications.....

popps said:

What I do not understand, is that, to my understanding, 

https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-online-services-launches-two-new-free-services

On top of that, Epic Online Services is offering the industry-leading anti-cheat solution to all developers for free. Easy Anti-Cheat is a powerful feature necessary for the smooth running of any online game with players on PC. These services empower developers to launch, operate, and scale great games like never before. 

Apparently I seem to gather that, from the Link above, "Epic Online Services is offering the industry-leading anti-cheat solution to all developers for free. "

Would it solve all of the cheating issues for UO ? I have no idea.... 

Are there better options to stop cheating in UO ? Possibly, I do not know.... but at least, I would like to see something being done to stop all the scripting, the cheating, the use of unapproved Third Party applications.....

Starting to wonder if popps is getting a commission from this company...let it go popps 

McDougle said:

popps said:

What I do not understand, is that, to my understanding, 

https://dev.epicgames.com/en-US/news/epic-online-services-launches-two-new-free-services

On top of that, Epic Online Services is offering the industry-leading anti-cheat solution to all developers for free. Easy Anti-Cheat is a powerful feature necessary for the smooth running of any online game with players on PC. These services empower developers to launch, operate, and scale great games like never before. 

Apparently I seem to gather that, from the Link above, "Epic Online Services is offering the industry-leading anti-cheat solution to all developers for free. "

Would it solve all of the cheating issues for UO ? I have no idea.... 

Are there better options to stop cheating in UO ? Possibly, I do not know.... but at least, I would like to see something being done to stop all the scripting, the cheating, the use of unapproved Third Party applications.....

Starting to wonder if popps is getting a commission from this company...let it go popps 

Not at all, I am just mentioning it as an example as a theoretical way to deal with cheating in Ultima Online because I saw it as mentioned that it is offered as free.

I totally have nothing to do with them at all, just thought that, when I read it as being offered free, that this could be one among the reasons to possibly consider it for the UO Developers..... of course, I imagine, there is also other factors which Ultima Online Designers' would want to consider to decide either way...

Of course that it is the UO's Developers call, ultimatedly....

I am just saying that, as a UO player, I would like to see cheating GONE from Ultima Online, however Ultima Online's Developers were to decide to achieve a "cheat-free" Ultima Online with...

Here's a busy little bee on Formosa. Running two thieves at the same time. Was out marking runes for runebooks when I came across these twins. Maybe attended, I do not know, but they did not seem to notice me.

@Ben
In the Sims Online
When we noticed an AFK player.
We would set up a podium and deco the area for a wedding then the priest would come marry the afk person to me.

This person woke up right after the ceremony.
You should try to incorporate some of these players you find into your cartoons.

Pawain said:

@ Ben
In the Sims Online
When we noticed an AFK player.
We would set up a podium and deco the area for a wedding then the priest would come marry the afk person to me.

This person woke up right after the ceremony.
You should try to incorporate some of these players you find into your cartoons.

Ha! Great idea. I will try it.

Yoshi said:

"if you are a group of half a dozen people, all of whom have been playing for 10+ years, and you're attacking 1 person,

why you all need to use faster illegal client too?

not necessary in my opinion"

Can you post screenshots of your reporting them if not you're as much as the problem as they are 

This is not you reporting this is you asking the GMs questions I'm sure you're familiar with the process of reporting in game but am sure there is a link explaining it somewhere otherwise 

“Not fault of individual player. Players are innocent.
scenario: innocent player has bugs EG attack nearest hostile attacks guilded chars who are criminal or red. 

Yoshi said:

“Not fault of individual player. Players are innocent.
scenario: innocent player has bugs EG attack nearest hostile attacks guilded chars who are criminal or red. 

Or cannot even mount their own horse in combat mode.
or missing option to auto navigate around objects on CC.

Guild member sends player download link for working client. 

It’s not currently bannable offence. 

Players are innocent.

in every guild I join I am causing constant problems to everyone because I am on official client. As I keep attacking wrong person (due to targeting bugs and no mobiles bars) and keep stopping on every tree or wall of stone I touch. And I cannot dispel fields for people that are behind houses (unless I’m stood next to it)

It should be me who is banned for using defective official classic client which is causing grief to guild. “

More excuses.  start your own guild find other players who don't want to cheat and have guild wars to continue to complain without making a change is insanity 

Yoshi said:

if I am making people rage quit by stopping on every tree instead of being near to them to help them, who is the real troublemaker?”

 😂 😂 😂

Literally laughed out loud when I read that 

“McDonald is saying to report people using unofficial client..for speeding etc

but at least their vehicle is roadworthy, I am driving around slowly with no brake light and bald tyres. I should be reporting users who are still using official client as it’s so defective it should be a crime”

IMHO as it stands the only thing that should be illegal is AFK Scripting (on the fence) and Multiboxing (BAN HAMMER).
Open a new section on the Forum for uploading/downloading programs/scripts so everybody can be equal
or ban every and all cheaters even if it closes UO due to subs.

The DEVs can not afford to follow the rules or they will find themselves in the unemployment line.

I am old and sometimes it hurts just to go around and collect BODs.

https://www.uoguide.com/Rules_of_Conduct

Unless i missed it I see nothing about scripting only unattended actions 

Even if this is the case it's terrible customer service to not take 2 minutes and post a link 

24. You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Electronic Arts to be used with the Service. Information about approved software can be found *here.

AmberWitch said:

24. You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Electronic Arts to be used with the Service. Information about approved software can be found *here.

*The link to the information about approved software is dead.

I think 3rd party programs different than scripting EC allows macros that can be looped i haven't played CC in years so can't speak to it i looked for a list of approved 3rd party apps and could only find 5 or 6 years old threads with of course no actual statements from the developers..

AmberWitch said:

*The link to the information about approved software is dead.

Now that is funny

Lord_Frodo said:

AmberWitch said:

*The link to the information about approved software is dead.

Now that is funny

Sadly none of this is funny rather a sad statement on the official state of affairs 

3rd party programs destroyed pvp in the game. I would say 90% of the pvpers left in the game use scripts that: Share targets, auto-dismounts, target relative, auto-box, auto-summon/mount, auto-potions, auto-abilities, one macro to dmount/throw bola/tele to target, auto-rearm, auto-apple, heals that automatically target an injured friend. There's hardly any skill left in the game. 

The problem is that the Devs allowed this to go on for so long that if they start banning people they'll have no one left to keep them employed. Their inaction has caused many players to quit the game over the years. For what they've allowed to happen to UO they DESERVE to be unemployed. The current state of the game and Dev team is so disgusting that it's not worth paying for or playing this game anymore. Everyone should just let OSI die. If you have a craving to play join a different type of UO server...

“There are no consumer rights that paying customers have?

Now wonder you deserved to be banned.
I won't have a groupie with u for legal action.

Lord_Frodo said:

AmberWitch said:

*The link to the information about approved software is dead.

Now that is funny

I think this says all that we need to know for that rule. They don't even keep the link alive to give approved software.

I think it's been said by a few and kinda confirmed via GM River (and the action/inaction of the Dev team). Use whatever 3rd party program you like to run whatever scripts you like as long as you are attended in a single session of UO.

The only question from that point is about multiboxing. Sure it's illegal but is it really actionable if you aren't blatantly abusing it (ie using 5 accounts to plow through everything on your screen)? My take on this would be if you are just multiboxing with 2 accounts (maybe 3 if 1 is a bard) it probably would be hard to prove because someone can say they are just toggling between 2 screens (with bard on auto-follow).

keven2002 said:

Lord_Frodo said:

AmberWitch said:

*The link to the information about approved software is dead.

Now that is funny

I think this says all that we need to know for that rule. They don't even keep the link alive to give approved software.

I think it's been said by a few and kinda confirmed via GM River (and the action/inaction of the Dev team). Use whatever 3rd party program you like to run whatever scripts you like as long as you are attended in a single session of UO.

The only question from that point is about multiboxing. Sure it's illegal but is it really actionable if you aren't blatantly abusing it (ie using 5 accounts to plow through everything on your screen)? My take on this would be if you are just multiboxing with 2 accounts (maybe 3 if 1 is a bard) it probably would be hard to prove because someone can say they are just toggling between 2 screens (with bard on auto-follow).

I feel it depends on the severity.

Let's say 3 bards are pretty harmless for what they can do. 

But let's say one can have 10 x legendary Spellweavers cast WOD to kill say Virtunebane or Osiredon in just 2 to 3 hits per toon in less than 20-30 secs... that is crazy.

I posted a multiboxer casting a low level spell to kill a monster during Yukio event. 10 x fireball is 300 damage per volley.

Well, this is the aftermath of having posted my previous picture three days ago. They are gone.

“ @devs ;
the forum moderators seem to be under the impression that the o**** is not approved or illegal and don’t want people to talk about it.

please correct their record, 
As far as I am aware it is the most commonly used client and absolutely not bannable to use as you can livestream playing on it or upload public videos on YouTube using this client on official servers without recourse

as far as I am aware there is no current list of approved/unapproved programs and people are free to use anything.

if this is not the case please state”

You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Broadsword Online Games to be used with the Service

Only uoa, uoam and UO Cartography have such written permission.

Mariah said:

Rules of Conduct

You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Broadsword Online Games to be used with the Service

Only uoa, uoam and UO Cartography have such written permission.

Then, if I may ask, why so many UO players are using that client, as well as others, which we cannot discuss about on the Forums, and, apparently, at least to my understanding, seem to do so without getting banned for their use ?

I do not understand it, please explain this to me. Are they illegal and thus players using them get banned, or, players using them do not get banned and, consequentially, that means their their use has implicitly been authorized ?

I mean, it does not look like Rocket Science to me.... if their use is illegal and bannable then, how is it that we can see UO players using them left and right and, yet, hardly getting banned ?

I honestly, do not understand it.

Thank you.

I don't know anyone that uses that client or needs to. Birds of a feather flock together so Yoshi just thinks so many use it.

I've actually been impressed with how many UO Twitch streamers are not using alternative clients. EpicLuteGaming uses the CC, LavaLynk, BehrlyThere, RiianRaspberry, are using the EC.

In Epic's case, he's spoken before on Stream that while he does wish the developers would clarify the third-party issue further, he's happy with the CC.

If you look on Twitch regularly as I do the people who aren't using the CC or EC are not players within the developers purview anyway. 

popps said:

Mariah said:

Rules of Conduct

You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Broadsword Online Games to be used with the Service

Only uoa, uoam and UO Cartography have such written permission.

Then, if I may ask, why so many UO players are using that client, as well as others, which we cannot discuss about on the Forums, and, apparently, at least to my understanding, seem to do so without getting banned for their use ?

I do not understand it, please explain this to me. Are they illegal and thus players using them get banned, or, players using them do not get banned and, consequentially, that means their their use has implicitly been authorized ?

I mean, it does not look like Rocket Science to me.... if their use is illegal and bannable then, how is it that we can see UO players using them left and right and, yet, hardly getting banned ?

I honestly, do not understand it.

Thank you.